Waahh...I really liked Crayon Shin-chan, mainly becauseof the concept( I'm
weird....remember? )
and the dialogue. Especially around the adult characters in the show and how
flabbergasted they all are when they get a "taste" of Shin-chan.
Overall, it's among my most favourite anime comedies, even though it's obviously
aimed at kids. That's saying something about the approach of the Japanese to
young viewers..hehe .
Whoa, didn't expect anyone to be able to bear with me regarding this loooong
exposition. Sorry guys, I'll try to cut down on the length next time, I mean really cut
down. I'm glad I put down my views into writing, though, since it sort of acts
like a chimney .
Anyway, I think Lunamaria as a character is all right, I think she did have good
moments in the series.
Although now I can say something about how Mitsuo Fukuda ruined the latter half
of the series for the new characters. It's a shame, hopefully, the next chapter
in the Gundam Series will be a return to the aspects that made it a legend in
the first place.
Again, thanks for the understanding in this matter. Ganbarimasu!
--
" Death is but perchance to dream. To dream for all eternity. "
Nice to meet you! Welcome to MT and enjoy your stay.
Actually I was welcomed by these guys when I made my introduction, they're
really wonderful people( and also weird )
You're stationed in Okinawa? That's neat, kinda explains why you're totally into
anime, aside from the fact that you're already a fan since you were a kid. Well,
my younger brother wants to be in the Air Force when he grows up( I keep saying
he'll have to wait a long time ), he's really adamant about that, been in love with airplanes ever since he
was in first grade.
Anyway, have a nice stay in MT, and feel free to add me to your friendlist . See
you around!
--
" Death is but perchance to dream. To dream for all eternity.
"--Vincent Volaju
Nee, I haven't been here for almost a day( I think )!
Thanks for the welcome everyone! I'm still working on my next review, hopefully,
I'll be more concise and be able to shorten the length( to prevent eyesores...
), but still keep it interesting and impartial. See you
around!
--
" Death is but perchance to dream. To dream for all eternity.
"--Vincent Volaju
Square-Enix has grazed us with a generation of excellent classical and
orchestral music through Final Fantasy. The ones I will always remember
are:
Suteki Da Ne--especially the orchestral treatment they gave it, I felt like I
was listening to the most elaborate and wonderful composition of all time , its string crescendos and overture are exceptional, especially the string
notes at the last two choruses...waahhh! Sugoi!
Melodies of Life--I prefer the Japanese version, but either of its versions are
excellent. Emiko Shiratori has such a lovely voice.
Eyes on me--Faye Wong's haunting romantic ballad from FF8. It is certainly an
ode to Laguna( he was my favorite character, followed by Seifer, Saquall and
Quistis... )
The Promised Land--the haunting Advent Children vocal masterpiece, its
arrangement was so elaborate and the effect--utterly moving.
Aerith's theme, " Pure Heart "-- another theme that will stick with me
forever ...
" To Zanarkand "--it received numerous variations and instrument
treatments, my most favorite being the original piano version( I have played it
over and over on the piano... ) and
the orchestral rendition played during Tidus' departure.
--
" Tell me about sorrow..."--Houko Kuwashima, from Shinkai no Kodoku
Well if you're looking for "haunting" music, I have a few( yeah
right" suggestions ) although some of it aren't anime OSTs, they're definitely in the category
that you mentioned. I'll give you names of specific songs, and/or
albums/compilations/compositions:
1) " Haunted "--Blair Witch 2 soundtrack( pun intended )
2) Final Fantasy: Advent Children soundtrack( some are not " haunting
" music, but there are other compositions in there that'll fit with what
you're looking for... )
i.e., The Promised Land
3) FF8 soundtrack collections, especially " Time Compression ", "
The Extreme ", and " Silence and Motion "
4) Witch Hunter Robin OST, " Shell ",and " Half-pain "( my
favourite )
5) Ergo Proxy ( pretty much all the contents are haunting )
6) Turn A-Gundam, i.e., Yoko Kanno's composition called " Moon "
7) Noir ( pretty much all of the OST )especially, " Secret Game ",
" Le Grand Retour ", " Canta Per Me ", and " Salva Nos
"
8) Albums of Within Temptation like " Mother Earth " and Silent Force
"
9) FF9, " The Place I long to Return To ", and " Song of Memories
"
10) Silent Hill OST ( chills down my spine...)
11) Blood the Last Vampire OST
Individual songs/compositions:
1) Sadness and Sorrow( Naruto )-based on the short piece called Hokage's
Funeral
2) " Space Lion "--Yoko Kanno's composition for Cowboy Bebop
3) " Ensei ", " Memories of Fanelia " and " Sora's
Folken "
4) " Lilium Est ", " Broken Wings " and " Anna Ni Issho
Datta No Ni--Athrun's Feelings "
4) Max Payne Theme from the Official Max Payne Soundtrack
5) " Sora ", " Frozen Flower " and " Brothers
"
Those are only some of what I listen to that can be considered " haunting
", hope this selection helps!
--
" Death is but perchance to dream. A dream that lasts for eternity.
"--Vincent Volaju
The Seed series is one of those anime titles that really received nurturing in
the music department: I had a hard time, as both Gundam Seed and GSD have
top-notch songs, if you would discount some...er, not so good choices for the
opening/ending OST, and of course, GSD's generic bagkground music.
OK, here we go....!
1) Shinkai no Kodoku
2) Akatsuki no Kuruma
3) Meteor
4) Reason
5) Hoshi no Tobira
6) Anna Ni Issho Datta No Ni
7) River
8) Invoke
9) Primal Innocence
10) Find the Way
Whew, it seems I've left some other great songs, but I only picked the top
ten...otherwise this would be a very loong list!
--
" Tell me about sorrow..."--Houko Kuwashima, from Shinkai no Kodoku
That's an interesting post, as I have so many songs that are stuck in my head,
sometimes I even hum them while in class or in the library ...
If it's gonna be a mainsteam song, well I would have to say...hmmm, "
Blurry ", that song sort of fits Rau le Creuset, and also " The World
I Know ", as well as " My Immortal ", which I believe is an
accidental ode to Shinn Asuka. I'm working on an AMV with that song as tribute
to Shinn and Stellar, now I'll just have to find a way to add it to my userpage,
otherwise, you can view it( if I ever finish it... ) at Youtube.com, where there are also lots of great Shinn/Stellar
videos.
If it's an anime song, that would be a tie between " Shinkai no Kodoku
", which made me cry the first time I heard it( and still forces a lump in
my throat... ),
and " Link " from Fullmetal Alchemist, a song from L'arc that was used
in its movie spin-off " The Conqueror of Shamballa ".
--
" Tell me about sorrow..."--Houko Kuwashima, from the first stanza of
Shinkai no Kodoku
It's never really too late to make your entrance( well except maybe after months
and months... ) This is coming from someone who actually wrote two reviews before making her
presence known...
Pleased to meet you and may you have a nice weekend( unfortunately, the same
cannot be said regarding myself...yargh research....)!
--
" Death is but perchance to dream. A dream that lasts for eternity.
"--Vincent Volaju
Well, I've been where you are now, so giving advice should be fairly easy (
haha, yeah right! )
Seriously though, here are some tips( actually, some of them have already been
mentioned by my esteemed co-users... )
from " Anne's Book of Knowledge "( pages turning...rustle, rustle ):
1) Find a relatively nice, quiet or superficially orderly place
to settle down. Make sure it's within very manageable distance to the uni. That,
or just settle for the dorms, where life will be anything but peaceful, hehe. I
chose the second route, and am currently paying dearly for it .
2)Make sure you always keep in touch back home, so you would be able to share
your problems and ask for some advice or emotional support( yeah right, my sis
NEVER gave me any... )
3)Make sure you memorize routes to the nearest resources( i.e., convenient
stores, groceries, or hardware shops, because rooms more often than not need
personal repairs, or at least some tune-ups...teeheee ),
and aqcuaint yourself with your campus as a whole, and fast. I know this from
the experience of being lost in my own campus...yarghh .
4)Establish friendly, or at least civil
relationships with your neighbors/dormmates even though they could sometimes be
weird( like me! ),
especially if you're all from different areas and have all sorts of err,
unfamiliar customs .
Our dorm is so diverse it could be likened to Mos Eisley( especially the scum
and villainy part ...). Ohh, and nothing beats being really close to store owners, what with the
discounts and stuff.
5)Don't hype up on the furniture and the utensils. Trying to immediately create
the "home" feel will lead you to focus too much in domestic comfort
and lag on other necessities. If there's a fairly good and varied shop in town,
strike deals with the storekeepers, and don't give in to all their sales talk,
especially when they say, " Oh, if you're going to buy this, then you
should ALSO buy this, and this... ." Just get what you need but also make sure that it fits your place and
wouldn't clutter it.
6)Accumulate " anti-boredom " measures. Reading material is very
recommendable. It also helps to read the daily paper, as well as self-help
books( like the cooking tips, to avoid living too much of instant food, haha,
like yours truly ).
7)Be careful of the laundry levels. Always make sure that clothes are always in
good shape even though you don't really wear some of them that much. It also
helps to have a laundromat in town, or at least, someone who does laundry for
reasonable pay. If this is the case, never forget to mark your clothes, and
aqcuaint yourself with the owner or keepers. Don't wash only the necessary
clothes, so you'll have a clean selection when you need it.
8)When in dire straits, settle for instant food, preferably dried vegetables and
canned meat, or seafoods( but not too much ). When this happens, buy lots of
fruit( oranges, strawberries or pineapples ) to balance out all those
preservatives. And tomatoes, never forget 'em .
9)Remember cooking necessities, but don't get a grill right away, because
chances are someone else already has. If you like grilled stuff, it'll be much
better to buy them rather than prepare them, since it costs more and takes up
time.
10)Containers are your best friend, durable boxes, and plastic holders. Also,
make sure you put them in a mamageable space.
As for the bathroom and toilet stuff...they're invaluable .
11)Cleaning stuff, preferably neutral ones, beacause too much concentrated
cleaners produce quite an odor . Medicine( even if you've got the immunity rate of a coordinator ), vitamins,
and health supplements also would be a big help.
12)Monitor garbage level, and collection schedules. Again general awareness of
your new surrounding helps a lot . Ease
up on the sweets, they attract bugs ,
and find a water station, as well as the nearest church .
13)The most important part, enjoy your this new stage of your life( Uni-life is
like a storm, you sort of weather it, and weathering it with friends is the best
thing... ), meet new people, open up( but don't lose your guard for the
occassional sicko ),
join campus clubs and the like. Preferably, it'll be easier and more fun to live
with a friend whose also from your area, but that can't really be the case
everytime.
Anyway, hope this looong
blabbing helps. Wish you the best and nothing short of it.
Personally, there are somethings that I'd like to do during weekends, but can't
,
ohh, the humanity!
Now, for the question, technically, I have a " normal " social life,
besides being an otaku, normal as in my social circle isn't really huge, but not
also not really small( I think the theory that otakus have a non-existent social
life is totally bunk ,
because we DO. Right guys? Uhhh...guys? ), and its kind of a mixed bag, since it sort of "assimilated" my
boyfriend's social circle a bit, which I think is inevitable...haha!
Well, my answer would be, PARTYING all night, but unfortunately, that wouldn't
be possible given my situation.
What I actually do during weekends would vary from, having a date( or an
argument... ), having a get-together at the dorms( research...or die! ),
hanging out with friends, or watching DVDs. Did I mention research ? Anyway, I guess me and my bestfriend Carol have more or less the same type
of social life, although hers is more exotic( sorry 'bout that
Carol...NOT!)
Ahhh, I think I've written enough weirdness for now, so I'll see you around!
Keep ze love alive! Ganbarimasu!
--
" Carry your heart to where you sense the cold comfort. Carry your heart to
beyond. "--Message 9
Personally, I don't think people consider chatrooms as an immediate option
anymore. I mean, sometime ago( or so I thought ), chatrooms were very visible and lots of people were participating, but now,
well let's just say they aren't the " fad " nowadays.
Some users actually contributed to this because of extreme rudeness, lack of
online ethics and overtly lewd topics . So,
nope, I don't really consider chatrooms as very viable these days. Although of
course, the interface in MMORPG's still remind me of them.
By the way, thanks for the welcome. I really appreciate it.
--
" Carry your heart to where you sense the cold comfort. Carry your heart to
beyond. "--Message 9
First of all, I would like to make it clear that this thread is not merely a
reply to another opposite thread, but rather, my exegesis on aspects of
LUNAMARIA HAWKE's character and actions that were previously overlooked. She is
not my favourite character in GSD, that would be Stellar Louissier, but, in my
opinion, she's the one who really needs an exposition. It is time for a defense.
It is therefore my task to defend a most misunderstood female in the Seed
series. AN EXEGESIS TO THE " LUNA MARE."
Well, before I make my point clear, I'd like to say a few things that don't
necessarily tie up with Lunamaria's character at first glance. First of all I
don't think this post was really meant for character bashing and some words were
used out of sheer emotion or just for kicks( even I had to restrain myself
sometimes whenever I read statements that Kira Yamato is nothing short of a god,
especially in GSD... so there you go, I'm NOT fond of Gundam Seed's main "
protagonist ", but when I write my opinion about him, I normally try to
refrain from using words that are obviously too emotionally colored... ). Then
again the one who posted clearly stated that she/he would be open for dissenting
opinions( here's hoping that she/he would answer this opinion of mine in kind,
since its been a while when last I found a worthy opponent...hehe, sick ), so
someone who does not agree with what was written should just take the pill and
reason with tact and precision( something that few people consider when
emotionally stricken... ). After thoroughly reading this reply and considering
all the points that will be given, I hope she/he would answer each and everyone
of my statements with the same objectiveness, so this is it for the long haul.
First, I would like to curb the impression that I'm most likely a Lunamaria fan,
which is untrue( actually I'm a staunch supporter of the Shinn Asuka/Stellar
Louissier pairing, and am under the impression that it was one of the few
outstanding things in GSD... more on that on my review, so feel free to read it
and then post a comment if you like ). However, some of the points given in the
aforementioned post( and this is my opinion ), are somewhat invalid( which I
will of course try to point out ), or a little too emotionally colored. Having
read most of the replies regarding this subject matter, I get the impression
that those opposed to how Lunamaria's character turned out seemed too angry or
unobjective to convince me that they have a valid point pertaining to their
opinion of her being " a shallow character ", as well as some of those
who favor her. Having said this, I will declare first my stand on the matter. It
is true that she had traits that are somewhat negative( but then, so has every
other character in every other show that has been made since the dawn of
television broadcast ), but we are human after all, as a rule, we are imperfect.
Do those negative traits far out weigh the good ones in Lunamaria's case that
she is, as some assert, a " pointless character "? For me, and I think
for others with the same opinion as me, the answer is no.
Thus, I will be breaking down her character and her actions in various points
during the series, so as to elaborate on my reasons for making such a stand on
the matter.
First, all these statements will be guided by the following assumptions in
context and reference.
1. This assuming that all of the events in Destiny actually happened, in order
to prevent references to the makers, since the one who posted clearly mentioned
that this is about how Lunamaria's character turned out, as opposed to what she
might have been. If I deviate from this, I could elaborate on how the latter
half of GSD was a poorly written, confusing and schizophrenic failure due to
emphasis on marketing success rather than actual storytelling , but then, that
would be beside the point. One does not simply avoid what he doesn't like, or
simply write it off as terrible without validating his opinion objectively. So,
we will leave Fukuda out of this, like we should( lucky for him ).
2. However, I would like to request that the other side do the same as well. I
believe I read in the post that a statement from a staff member at Sunrise was
cited to prove that Lunamaria and Shinn were not in a close relationship( I
believe it was an interview ): i. e. " Shinn was never close to anyone on
the Minerva. ". While some would most likely use this as a reference to
support his/her opinion, it is not advisable to do so. The reasons are as
follows:
A. The director of GS and GSD( Fukuda himself ) actually contradicted this with
his statement in an interview. When asked about the romantic pairings in GSD,
his reply was as follows: " I think, of all the [existing] couples in GSD,
the only ones who are truly in love would be Shinn and Lunamaria, which was a
pre-existing scenario even fron the beginning of the series. Kira and Lacus have
already settle down, or have already passed the " in-love " stage, and
Athrun and Cagalli's were almost exclusively on a comrade-in-arms level[
although this might be questioned by fans of the particular pair, since
admittedlythe two did things that are mostly romance-related, if I may say so
]."
B. Another scenario writer pointed out in an interview that the Lunamaria and
Shinn pairing had been conceived from the beginning of the series, not, as some
claim, to be an abrupt replacement to the " aborted " Shinn and
Stellar pairing, and further added that clues can be found even at the initial
run of the series.
My point in citing these statements is to illustrate the fact that quotes from
the makers should not be used to validate points regarding a character's
motivations, actions or personality, especially when the person mentioned admits
that she is talking about the " character herself". Simply put, if one
could not cite Fukuda's inadequacies as director and overseer to be a reason for
Lunamaria's flaws as a character, one could NOT also use interviews/statements
from other members of the staff to validate their claims, since this would be a
type of " double-standard "( i. e. we can use it but you can't ).
Keep in mind that statements made during interviews/documentaries can be merely
opinions of the particular resource person himself/herself and could not be
treated as absolute fact, since it would be only from that particular persons
point of view and not a proven fact about the series itself( I remember reading
a documentary on the film Schindler's List that Steven Spielberg cited Oskar as
a "scoundrel saviour" and Amon Goeth as a "personification of
evil", while his sriptwriter, Stephen Zaillian, commented on how Amon was
just a " lost soul " and not on the same level as Lucifer , since
neither opinion could be deemed wrong or right, I choose not to quote these
statements as they would contradict each other.).
This would be applicable to statements of the production staff regarding aspects
or characters of GSD.
With those points being made clear( I think ), let us proceed to prove or
disprove the assertion that Lunamaria Hawke is " pointless " as a
character and why I disagree. This conclusion, in my opinion is based on the
following misunderstandings or contextual errors in interpretation of the
character's actions or her personality itself:
MISINTERPRETATION #1: LUNAMARIA HAS A SERIOUS ROMANTIC DISPOSITION TOWARDS
ATHRUN.
Since this is the most pervasive of the misinterpretations regarding Lunamaria's
actions, I will make light of this first. Most viewers would likely assume this,
either due to the fact that they like Athrun Zala, have not paid attention to
contextual nuances or not paying attention to the new characters at all, which
would be a shame, since I initially thought they were much better than the
original cast. To set the record straight, it is clear that what Lunamaria had
for Athrun could be analogous to a kohai's admiration to his/her senpai( as a
user already pointed out ), which simply put, is admiration, mixed with the
average woman's tendency to superficially prefer older or more
"stable"( sometimes synonymous to "mature" ) guys than one
from the same age bracket. The argument that it is "more than that "
is non-sequitur because of the following reasons:
A) Lunamaria only started to show apparent interest(than what was normal)
towards Athrun was when his real identity was revealed, since he went under the
guise of "Alex deNon"( or Alex Dino/Alex Dean ). This can be expressed
by her reaction when hearing his real name mentioned for the first time. (
Lunamaria: " Athrun Zala?[surprised]) If she was attracted by Athrun
HIMSELF and not mainly by his reputation as an ace or a living legend for ZAFT
during the previous war, the assertion that she was seriously "romantically
attracted" to him might be justified. Alas, this was not the case.
B) Another, more stubborn reason for the " It is more than that "
assertion regarding Lunamaria's feelings toward Athrun is THE "FACT"
THAT SHE WAS JEALOUS OF MEER( which she initially mistook for Lacus ). Why have
I placed quotations on the WHY? This is because it CANNOT be taken as a fact
that her subsequent actions were mainly due to jealousy or frustration with her
" failure to gain Athrun's attention" as some would interpret( of
course, this is a rather easy way to interpret why a person is reacting
negatively, this is where understanding motivations comes to fore, otherwise we
will be left with only our assumptions ). If you've paid sufficient neutral
attention to her actions during these events( especially after seeing Athrun and
Meer ), her reaction was not one of obvious jealousy, in fact very little of it
stemmed from jealousy at all. It was rather, a thinly disguised attempt at
hiding a mixture of irritation, a tad of jealousy and a LOT of disappointment.
Wait, disappointment? Why would she be disappointed with Athrun, or irritated
for that matter? Didn't she admire him and on occassion, developed some
superficial feelings( I use superficial as opposed to DEEP romantic feelings
since this was obviously not the case. ) for him?
The answer can be found in the question itself. It can be noticed that Lunamaria
projected Athrun to be more than he really is, as the case can be with people
meeting a person they admired ( it is clear that Athrun's exploits are like
legends to the ZAFT pilots, which would be reasonable, since almost everyone in
the military, may it be soldiers of PLANT or the Earth Alliance, have heard of
the " Three Shp Alliance's" [consequently, Athrun and Kira's] exploits
during the previous war which culminated in the famous battle of Jachin
Due...^_^)so much but never encountered in person. This is the case( in real
life ) of my friend Carol Brigham and a senior who is a very famous varsity when
we were freshmen( both of us are taking up Psychology ). Well, this senior, whom
I will not name for privacy reasons( anyway, I thought he was really a numbskull
when it comes to more serious aspects of life^^, he was just good-looking and
and happened to be very talented at basketball, he's got great reflexes, smooth
moves... oh, you get the picture...^^he wouldn't be interested in deep
discussions like this...basically not my type^^, not to take anything away from
Carol's preferences, hehe...) was a natural magnet for younger students( but not
too young...sick^^). Carol developed somewhat of a crush on him, despite never
having approached him personally ( up to this day, it still eludes me, maybe
because she's still conservative in some ways, were from Missouri, not New
York...^^), but asked his batchmates( the girls ) about personal details about
him, the usual; what he likes, what he doesn't like, the works, until, she had
herself a personal picture of him, not the correct one, mind you, but the
"idealized"one that she projected, which will either be: too perfect
or too critical. If it had been the latter, well it wouldn't be that bad.
Unfortunately, what she projected( projection- to make out(psychological term),
or to establish a mental portrait of; ) was too perfect and of course, failed to
meet her expectations.
( This projection also applies to fans of an actor/actress who research too much
about the details of their idol's life. Technically, not all characteristics of
the famous person would be known by just researching or reading his biographies
and profiles [ especially via the internet^^], so when they find out that he/or
she is a rude to fans, or doesn't really mind them, or better yet extremely
eccentric, they become somewhat disappointed, frustrated or irritated due to
their "idealized " projection of the individual.) When Carol met him
in person, he turned out to be a sort of dim person( but not in an amusing
way^^), somewhat rude, and practically clueless in discussions besides
basketball( I was there when he said that Badminton was for wimps, what a bright
opinion, with a huge smirk on his face^^), and enjoyed having women fawn over
him( how charming...xD). Needless to say, Carol was "turned off", and
with good reason I might add. Anyway, if your'e going to say that I went too far
using a personal matter like that as an example for a forul post, she is reading
this over my shoulder now, to make sure I don't slander the facts. Hehe^^.( I'm
using my laptop, we're both playing the part of owls researching Freud, only
I've decided to take a break...^^)
How does this long "anecdote" connect to the Lunamaria discussion, you
ask?
If you haven't figured the parallelism yet, here it is. Lunamaria Hawke new
Athrun Zala indirectly, i.e. from hearsay, or from second-hand information,
never having the chance to meet him in person prior to their encounter onboard
the Minerva( in which she displayed the normal level of attention you would give
to a stranger from Orb suddenly becoming a passenger to a ZAFT military vessel
). So, the picture that would normally be projected in her mind is an idealized
impression. If the reason for this is still unclear, here is the step by steb
recap:^^
A) Being trained as a member of an elite force, the crew of the Minerva, and any
military personnel, for that matter, would be inclined to view discipline as a
way to success( i.e., maintaining control of emotions[although Shinn is an
exception, and is frequently reprimanded because of it], following orders
explicitly, avoiding deviations in battle ). So, with Athrun's reputation as an
ace pilot and a legendary fighter in the last war, the crew of the Minerva(
except Shinn, Talia and Gilbert, if you want the reasons as to why they're
exempted, read my review of Gundam Seed Destiny^^), having encountered him for
the first time, would have projected him( i.e. formed a mental picture prior to
actually meeting him) as a straight-laced, highly disciplined and idealized
individual, in relation to his noteworthy accomplishments. You wouldn't assume
outright that a very successful military commander would have unorthodox traits,
because you actually assumed his personality according to his reputation, as
opposed to the other way around. Lunamaria is no exception to this projection.
She actually formed an idealized "version" of Athrun Zala based on
what she knew about him from indirect sources, so that when she actually met
him, she expected his personality to be exactly as she presumed.
Now, this brings us back to the reason as to why Lunamaria acted the way she did
when she first saw Meer and Athrun together.
To those who haven't found the answer( or at least, a huge chunk of it )yet, she
was for the most part frustrated and disappointed that her "idea" of
Athrun's personality was off-base^^, which was understandable, since she saw
only the incomplete picture, especially that scene when she saw Meer in Athrun's
room in a very suggestive manner^^. Give the girl a break. The fact of the
matter is, she assumed that Athrun Zala, the "legendary ZAFT pilot"
was very conservative, hardly turned his attention to women, and was
figuratively speaking, a very "stiff" and military-oriented person.
This misconception was actually an honest mistake and is very humorous( at least
for me)^^. So when she abruptly discovered that the real Athrun was still very
close to a teen-ager emotionally and behaviour-wise, despite his legendary
exploits, she was in a way, "turned-off" like my friend Carol. She
probably thought that he was a sort of "ladies man", the type who
enjoys women orbiting him like satellites.The way Athrun tried to set the record
straight after the incident with Meer was actually entertaining.
After that she mostly resorted to ignoring this " discovery" about
Athrun's personality and went about to focus on his more professional
attributes, hence, the scenes in which she convinces the latter to try out some
shooting exercises, the constant questions about his exploits as a pilot during
the last war, and other sequences which were assumed as "flirting" by
some viewers.
The perk is that whenever she sees Athrun with Meer, she feels a return of her
previous frustration over her perceived "misconception" of Athrun's
personality, and this prompts her to act negatively during such instances. In
this aspect , Luna is different from Carol, who immediately erased the
aforementioned "guy" from her memory banks after their first meeting,
but then, the said person is definitely no Athrun Zala, and has no chance of
being a legendary figure either^^. I hope I made the point clear about Luna's
negative reaction not being primarily out of jealousy as others have hastily
concluded.
MISINTERPRETATION # 2: LUNAMARIA WAS TERRIBLE TO HER SISTER MEYRIN
Another basis for some fans to attack Lunamaria's character would be the her
supposed apathy toward her younger sister, Meyrin. This is actually based on the
assumption that just because a sibling relationship does not adhere to certain
stereotypes( i.e. the " doting sister stereotype ", the "
obviously rivals " stereotype or the "dysfunctional setup" a la
Rekka and Kurei-sama in Rekka no Honou ), then one of them must be a problematic
character. This is the case between Lunamaria and Meyrin. Neither of them are
particularly meticulous about each other, as Lunamaria is the sort of older
sister that doesn't openly express feelings, and Meyrin is the type who would
willingly just let her older sister go about her business, as opposed to the
petulant and spoiled younger sibling stereotype. A perfect example of this would
be their scenes in the Minerva. As for the scene were Luna
"reprimanded" her sister for not visiting her in the infirmary, again,
its just another proof that she fits the superficially hard-edged older sister
type, which kinda reminds me of my own sister, three years older than me. She
has a tendency to reprimand me for the smallest things, but never did I get the
feeling that she "hated" me or was deliberately being stuck-up. It's
amazing how few noticed that although Luna was like this, Meyrin didn't harbor
any resent, and this is evidently not because she was just being nice ar simply
" enduring the torture^^", but because she knew deep inside that
although ner sister could be stubborn and immature sometimes, she genuinely
loved her.
As for her apparent interest in Athrun that she sometimes ignores Meyrin, this
actually happens in the initial episodes, so Lunamaria was still pretty much in
" hero admiration mode ". However, some important sequences clearly
illustrated that she truly valued her younger sister. During Athrun's escape
attempt, when Meyrin came out of the shower and opened the door, Lunamaria
remarked, "You look terrible." Other viewers simply took this as an
insult to Meyrin, and just another case of Lunamaria being "stuck'up"
or "mean" towards her sister. Keep in mind the context, Luna was
escorted by gendarmes, and they would be blind not to see that she just hastily
dressed after leaving the shower in a hurry. So, knowing Luna's personality( she
actually resembles Shinn in the aspect that they are both bluntly direct and
tactless when stating their opinions, which is not really that bothersome for me
), the " You look terrible. " comment was just her way of
saying," What are you thinking, coming out looking like you just came out
of the shower and barely dressed? Don't you see that the soldiers are gawking at
you? ", which was sufficiently proven when she cleared the soldiers from
the doorway. Taking into account that she didn't know her sister was covering
for the defecting Athrun, I don't think her actions during this scene were
"offensive", as some have asserted.
Another misconception is her lack of concern for Meyrin, especially when the
latter defected, and was subsequently, labeled a traitor and reported KIA( as
for the issue with Shinn, more on that after this...^^). First of all, it is
evident that being a member of the elite forces, unlike Meyrin who was a CIC,
Lunamaria received substantially higher levels of indoctrination. Simply hearing
a conversation about assassination attempts, impersonations of Lacus Clyne and
other things dicussed by Athrun and Kira during the secret meeting by the Orb
waterline would be unlikely to instill sufficient doubt in her mind. Let me
state it again, military indoctrination is not brainwashing, as some claim. This
usually stems from the belief that individual opinions are a prime accommodation
within the armed forces, caused by watching too many su-par war movies and
unfamiliarity with hoe things work inside the military in real life. People,
nowadays, especially those with no actual military knowledge whatsoever, think
that soldiers can be made to question their training just by hearing a contrary
or revelatory statement from an enemy. Sorry folks, my Grandpa actually
participated during the Normandy offensive in WWII, he landed on a beach called
Utah, and he used to tell us about how it really was during the war before he
passed away. I wouldn't really talk in detail about this, since remembering him
makes me sad. To be direct, he told us that some of the men in his company were
born in Germany and Poland, and most likely they would be meeting their brothers
or sisters in the front, since they would be fighting on different sides. He
said these soldiers hate it, but they would kill their relatives on the other
side if they are ordered upon to do so. It is sad, but this is the way real
conflict unfolds. Hardly like in the movies where everyone is constantly
questioning their reasons for going to war. For the most part, a soldier's
primary concern is not getting killed before accomplishing his objective. Real
war is seldom so dramatic. I suggest you read more about real warfare, tactics
and experiences before watching the Seed series, otherwise you'll assume that
real battle unfolds in the same way, which wouldn't be accurate, in any case.
Having stated this, It is obvious why Luna didn't became suspicious of ZAFT or
Gilbert's intentions. Are we so naive to think that during training soldiers are
not acquainted with the deceptive tactics that would normally be used by an
enemy to instill doubt to the opposing force or weaken their resolve? In this
case, the conversation was true, but any soldier of the opposing side worth his
salt wouldn't buy that unless he/she was a barely-trained raw
recruit^^.
The reason why Luna wasn't convinced even after Meyrin defected with Athrun, was
that( understandably ), she was under the opinion that Athrun took advantage of
Meyrin's minimal experience and naivete, forcing her into defecting with him.
Again, it is clear that Lunamaria was just overprotective of her sister, a
matter that I will discuss later on. She sees Meyrin as her responsibility, as
according to the back story, they lost their parents at a young age( a fact that
was not brought up during the series ). Remember her impression that Athrun
somehow "failed" her projected "image" of him? Now, his
defection, with Meyrin in tow, crushed that for good. Thr reason she blamed it
on Athrun is because what he is doing directly contradicts what Luna expected
him to be. She is angry and in denial, probably thinking: " The Athrun Zala
that I thought I knew was a lie. The legend is just another fallible man, and a
spineless and deceptive one at that( this in no way reflects my personal opinion
of Athrun^^, I'm just getting inside Luna's head as she was at that point in
time). Not only did he betray us, he took my sister as well( I will explain
later why this is NOT a sign of Luna's jelousy of Meyrin, just bear with me
until I get there.)! " She was actually worried about Meyrin, being
naturally a trusting person and easily confused or persuaded, and the fact that
Athrun "would make easy prey of her." These are not the thought
patterns of an apathetic or uncaring person if you ask me.
MISINTERPRETATION # 3: THE FLASHBACKS AT THE FINALE
For me, these are the sequences from which most misconceptions about Lunamaria's
character stemmed. Why she was thinking about what she was thinking during the
finale, which apparently so many people misunderstood it's almost funny. As she
attempts to egage Athrun in a fight during the Battle of Messiah( final episode
and the extended version ), Lunamaria utters these words: " What I can't
forgive is the fact that you took Meyrin!", and with the statement come a
string of flashbacks about Meer.
How this could possibly prove that Luna does not care about her sister is beyond
me. Again, as with all incomplete statements, some people really got it wrong,
which kinda reminds me about how everyone missed the entire point of The Matrix
Trilogy. The average viewer just fits the statement into what he/she is already
thinking, rather than trying to see the statement within the context. Some have
interpreted this as proof that Luna is jealous of Meyrin because Athrun chose
her, which is downright ludicrous. Another misinterpretation is that Luna was
still fuming over the Athrun and Meer thing , and I wouldn't even honor that
with a reply. Let us be neutral and explore the true context of that
scene:
A) It is unlikely that Lunamaria would be jealous of Meyrin and yet recall Meer
at the same time. It is out of context.
Think about it, shouldn't she be visualizing scenarios about Athrun and her
sister?
B) It is also non-sequitur to assume that if she's having flashbacks about Meer,
then she must still be fuming about that. What she
said(shouted ) definitely debunked that. If youwant to read it again, see above
.
*THE MEANING THAT MANY FAILED TO GET A HOLD OF:
Remember her belief that Athrun took advantage of her sister's innocence and
naivete? Also the idea that Athrun is actually a deceptive person after his
unpredictable behaviour? The fact that Luna mistook Meer for Lacus and(like any
crew of the Minerva)thus assumed that he was engaged? Technically Luna assumed
that Athrun was just deceiving Meyrin into believing that ZAFT was erring in
their stand and beliefs, due to her more intensive indoctrination as an elite
soldier.
Why the Meer flashback then?
After his defection, Athrun and Luna never really had communication with each
other again, so her negative impressions of him since he left would more or less
unchanged. When they met during the battle, be keen to note that Luna never
showed immediate signs of extreme anger towards Athrun. Only when she recalled
that he took Meyrin did we see her temper flaring.
For Luna, Athrun would only use Meyrin as she was under the impression that he
was engaged to Lacus Clyne( technically she doesn't know about Cagalli). It's
her way of saying: " YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO DO WHAT YOU WANT DON'T YOU? YOU
WANT TO DEFECT JUST LIKE THAT, YOU DID. YOU WANT TO JOIN THE ARCHANGEL AGAIN,
FINE, YOU DID. BUT WHAT IS UNFORGIVABLE IS YOU BROUGHT MY SISTER WITH YOU! WHAT
PLACE WILL SHE HAVE IN YOUR LIFE THEN, AS YOU'RE ALREADY COMMITED TO SOMEONE
ELSE( flashbacks about Meer, since she has no idea that the latter has been
killed)! ARE YOU GOING TO MAKE A FOOL OF MY SISTER JUST BECAUSE SHE REALLY
HAPPENS TO LIKE YOU AND WOULD SWALLOW EVERYTHING YOU SAY?"
Again, this is not the sentiments of one who is apathetic. The only thing that
resulted in the misinterpretation of the statement and the sequence as a whole
would be some viewers who already assumed what she wanted to say before she
actually uttered it.
Personally, I prefer Lunamaria over Meyrin. I think she was just protecting her
sister in her own way. I find Meyrin to be a little stereotypical as the shy
girl who secretly falls for the hero, descreetly seeks his attention etc.
MISINTERPRETATION # 4: LUNA AND MEYRIN WERE BOTH VYING FOR ATHRUN'S ROMANTIC
ATTENTION
This is another one for the ages . What made some people think that just because
a girl/woman wants to gain a boy/man's attention, it can automatically be
deduced that she is ROMANTICALLY interested in him. Again, see references to
MISINTERPRETATION # 1. What she had for Athrun was like a kohai's admiration for
a particularly famous senpai. As for scenes in which she overshadowed Meyrin
with regards to addressing Athrun. It is obvious that Luna is the more
straightforward and outspoken of the two. It is just a case of "your too
trusting, let me do the talking.", as these traits are pretty obvious of
Meyrin, paricularly how she really believes everything that Athrun said, just
because he said it . Simply put, I would prefer girl characters who are frank
and direct, but in reality are more cautious, other than one who seems shy and
demure, but is actually more gullible and easily persuaded.
Again, Luna and Meyrin were not a typical sweet sister relationship, but one
cannot deny that the former cared about her younger sister deeply.
Unfortunately, some don't seem to realize this.
MISINTERPRETATION # 5: HER TRUE FEELINGS ABOUT SHINN AND VICE VERSA
This will be the most challenging subject of all, especially considering that it
is one of the most common misconceptions and is composed of various elements.
Thus, I will address each of these in sections:
A) That there are no clues pertaining to the Shinn and Lunamaria relationship
prior to Stellar's death and Athrun and Meyrin's defection. For careful
observers, even at the beginning of the series, there were numerous clues that
point to these two as being a potential couple. Being familiar with the
storyline developments of the numerous anime that I've watched, the probability
is always high that two characters who seem mismatched but share qualities and
an understanding of each other to some degree will most likely end up with each
other. Although I will forever be a Stellar fan, her being one of the more
memorable characters in GSD despite her limited role in the series, the truth is
the criteria I've mentioned applies more applicably to Shinn and Lunamaria as a
pairing. It is sort of like Shinji and Asuka, although many believed he would
end up with Rei. Another example of that would be Cloud Strife and Aeris
Gainsborough, although he later proved to be more compatible to Tifa Lockhart
despite some protests from fans.
As a couple, Luna and Shinn had more experience together, having known each
other since their days in the Academy. Also, Shinn's relationship with Stellar
was more of a protective one rather than an actual "give and take"
relationship. Stellar wasn't really capble of "giving back" since,
sadly, her chance of living a normal life was forcibly stolen along with her
memories. It wasn't her fault really, she was just a victim of conflict, which
is ingrained in humanity since their early days of existence. Also, despite both
having tragic pasts, Shinn and Stellar didn't have that much in common.
I believe that Shinn saw Stellar, in a very deep and profound way, as a focal
point for his sorrow. She was a tragic figure, but also strangely innocent, the
second coming of his beloved sister Mayu. Not a replacement, but a kindred
spirit that needs protection most of all. When Stellar died Mayu died once more
in Shinn's heart.
B) Shinn and Lunamaria's similarities.
Some viewers overlooked clues that were present even during the initial episodes
in the series. It is clear that these two are people who blunt and direct when
stating their opinions, but not about their true feelings for each other, which
shouldn't come as a surprise. It kinda reminds me about Alucard and Integra,
they can say what they want when in the company of other people but never their
true views regarding each other. However, they have pretty much contrasting
attitudes, and this leads to people thinking that they don't have anything in
common at all, I'm talking about Shinn and Lunamaria here. She and Shinn are
both very repressed people, meaning they tend to be bowled over by their
emotions or their attempts to supress it that they have a hard time conveying
them properly. Although in the case of Shinn, this is more obvious, due to his
introverted nature, sharp remarks, and general animosity towards others. As for
Lunamaria, she usually disguises her doubts, aggravations or true feelings in a
facade of cheerfulness, thus some people would most likely find her to be a
dunce, or interpret this as pretentiousness. Yes, it is true that she was still
immature in some ways, stubborn and likely to jump into conclusions, but then,
who among us was so well-rounded as an individual that we never passed this
stage in life? We are, as I have said, human, quintessentially imperfect.
It can be noted that while no one else could get close to Shinn during his more
"chaotic" phases, especially after Heine's death, and most instances
were everyone's attitude toward him would be; " What the hell...let's come
back when he's in a better mood. ", Lunamaria was the only one who could
talk to him. Although most of the time Shinn would act nonchalant or bland
towards her, it can be discerned that he doesn't really resent the attention
given him by Lunamaria. He behaves like a stoic person who enjoys beautiful
music but would not let it show in his face, which makes it somewhat amusing for
me.
It is also hinted that during their days at the academy, Shinn, despite his
fiery temper and acidic disposition, was somewhat admired by most female cadets,
mainly due to his "bad-guy" attitide and superior skills as a pilot.
Being essentially a person who does not readily show her true feelings, it took
a long time for Lunamaria to actually admit to herself that she really cared
more about Shinn than she thought. Her character is technically a girl who
behaves like an attention-grabber on the outside, but is actually a conservative
somewhere inside the core.^^
3) Shinn's true feelings:
It is obvious that Shinn was a lot closer to Luna than he would admit to
himself. Essentially, he's really that sort of person, so, "Shikata ga
nai".^^ It is actually one of the things that made him an interesting
character. While he seems noncommital and coarse with regards to Lunamaria, he
doesn't really resent her presence. Most of the time, only Luna could get close
to him, besides Rey, when he is in a particularly dark mood.
Having said this, I don't think that their pairing was abrupt, or, as some term
it, sick. What happened in the latter part of the series was simply a
culmination of all the repressed feelings they had, being held back for a long
period of time. It isn't that they suddenly realized that "they loved each
other", rather they finally admitted to themselves that they have loved
each other for a long time.
Another misconception is regarding her supposed lack of negative reaction over
the fact that it was Shinn who executed the orderto terminate the defecting
Athrun, and consequently, Meyrin( whom I think is too gullible for her own
good...). Some claim that she is unjustified in blaming it all on Athrun.
Strange, since HE was the one who defected and turned his back on ZAFT once
again, so Luna would be very immature and unprofessional as a soldier not to
take into account that there was an order from the High Command regarding
traitors( I'm sure that members of the special forces are briefed about that
during training, for more info on that, research on the policies of the CIA and
the KGB regarding operatives who defect to the other side of the fence. ), and
he couldn't change it even if he wanted to, not if he wanted to maintain his
integrity as a soldier anyway.
She showed a flash of maturity in handling this situation. The assertion that
they "suddenly" became close to each other after the incident is
simply false. These two are like stars slowly moving toward each other since the
beginning of the series. I preferred her reaction to the usual crying and
screaming of " You killed _________! hate you!", and in this respect,
I prefer Luna from Fllay Alster, whose character in my opinion was overdone( but
not in a good way...).
Having said this, I don't think that Luna is "pointless" or a
"useless" character. It's just that some people didn't really care to
undertsand her motivations or actions that much, since they were so enamored
with the old characters, or simply don't pay attention to subtle clues.
Anyway, let me knoe what you think, if you've actually managed to read this^^
without getting eyesores. It's just that I had a lot to say about the subject
and focused on them in detail. Here's to understanding.^^
Have a nice day! Ganbarimasu!
First of all, I would like to make it clear that this thread is not merely a
reply to another opposite thread, but rather, my exegesis on aspects of
LUNAMARIA HAWKE's character and actions that were previously overlooked. She is
not my favourite character in GSD, that would be Stellar Louissier, but, in my
opinion, she's the one who really needs an exposition. It is time for a defense.
It is therefore my task to defend a most misunderstood female in the Seed
series. AN EXEGESIS TO THE " LUNA MARE."
Well, before I make my point clear, I'd like to say a few things that don't
necessarily tie up with Lunamaria's character at first glance. First of all I
don't think this post was really meant for character bashing and some words were
used out of sheer emotion or just for kicks( even I had to restrain myself
sometimes whenever I read statements that Kira Yamato is nothing short of a god,
especially in GSD... so there you go, I'm NOT fond of Gundam Seed's main "
protagonist ", but when I write my opinion about him, I normally try to
refrain from using words that are obviously too emotionally colored... ). Then
again the one who posted clearly stated that she/he would be open for dissenting
opinions( here's hoping that she/he would answer this opinion of mine in kind,
since its been a while when last I found a worthy opponent...hehe, sick ), so
someone who does not agree with what was written should just take the pill and
reason with tact and precision( something that few people consider when
emotionally stricken... ). After thoroughly reading this reply and considering
all the points that will be given, I hope she/he would answer each and everyone
of my statements with the same objectiveness, so this is it for the long haul.
First, I would like to curb the impression that I'm most likely a Lunamaria fan,
which is untrue( actually I'm a staunch supporter of the Shinn Asuka/Stellar
Louissier pairing, and am under the impression that it was one of the few
outstanding things in GSD... more on that on my review, so feel free to read it
and then post a comment if you like ). However, some of the points given in the
aforementioned post( and this is my opinion ), are somewhat invalid( which I
will of course try to point out ), or a little too emotionally colored. Having
read most of the replies regarding this subject matter, I get the impression
that those opposed to how Lunamaria's character turned out seemed too angry or
unobjective to convince me that they have a valid point pertaining to their
opinion of her being " a shallow character ", as well as some of those
who favor her. Having said this, I will declare first my stand on the matter. It
is true that she had traits that are somewhat negative( but then, so has every
other character in every other show that has been made since the dawn of
television broadcast ), but we are human after all, as a rule, we are imperfect.
Do those negative traits far out weigh the good ones in Lunamaria's case that
she is, as some assert, a " pointless character "? For me, and I think
for others with the same opinion as me, the answer is no.
Thus, I will be breaking down her character and her actions in various points
during the series, so as to elaborate on my reasons for making such a stand on
the matter.
First, all these statements will be guided by the following assumptions in
context and reference.
1. This assuming that all of the events in Destiny actually happened, in order
to prevent references to the makers, since the one who posted clearly mentioned
that this is about how Lunamaria's character turned out, as opposed to what she
might have been. If I deviate from this, I could elaborate on how the latter
half of GSD was a poorly written, confusing and schizophrenic failure due to
emphasis on marketing success rather than actual storytelling , but then, that
would be beside the point. One does not simply avoid what he doesn't like, or
simply write it off as terrible without validating his opinion objectively. So,
we will leave Fukuda out of this, like we should( lucky for him ).
2. However, I would like to request that the other side do the same as well. I
believe I read in the post that a statement from a staff member at Sunrise was
cited to prove that Lunamaria and Shinn were not in a close relationship( I
believe it was an interview ): i. e. " Shinn was never close to anyone on
the Minerva. ". While some would most likely use this as a reference to
support his/her opinion, it is not advisable to do so. The reasons are as
follows:
A. The director of GS and GSD( Fukuda himself ) actually contradicted this with
his statement in an interview. When asked about the romantic pairings in GSD,
his reply was as follows: " I think, of all the [existing] couples in GSD,
the only ones who are truly in love would be Shinn and Lunamaria, which was a
pre-existing scenario even fron the beginning of the series. Kira and Lacus have
already settle down, or have already passed the " in-love " stage, and
Athrun and Cagalli's were almost exclusively on a comrade-in-arms level[
although this might be questioned by fans of the particular pair, since
admittedlythe two did things that are mostly romance-related, if I may say so
]."
B. Another scenario writer pointed out in an interview that the Lunamaria and
Shinn pairing had been conceived from the beginning of the series, not, as some
claim, to be an abrupt replacement to the " aborted " Shinn and
Stellar pairing, and further added that clues can be found even at the initial
run of the series.
My point in citing these statements is to illustrate the fact that quotes from
the makers should not be used to validate points regarding a character's
motivations, actions or personality, especially when the person mentioned admits
that she is talking about the " character herself". Simply put, if one
could not cite Fukuda's inadequacies as director and overseer to be a reason for
Lunamaria's flaws as a character, one could NOT also use interviews/statements
from other members of the staff to validate their claims, since this would be a
type of " double-standard "( i. e. we can use it but you can't ).
Keep in mind that statements made during interviews/documentaries can be merely
opinions of the particular resource person himself/herself and could not be
treated as absolute fact, since it would be only from that particular persons
point of view and not a proven fact about the series itself( I remember reading
a documentary on the film Schindler's List that Steven Spielberg cited Oskar as
a "scoundrel saviour" and Amon Goeth as a "personification of
evil", while his sriptwriter, Stephen Zaillian, commented on how Amon was
just a " lost soul " and not on the same level as Lucifer , since
neither opinion could be deemed wrong or right, I choose not to quote these
statements as they would contradict each other.).
This would be applicable to statements of the production staff regarding aspects
or characters of GSD.
With those points being made clear( I think ), let us proceed to prove or
disprove the assertion that Lunamaria Hawke is " pointless " as a
character and why I disagree. This conclusion, in my opinion is based on the
following misunderstandings or contextual errors in interpretation of the
character's actions or her personality itself:
MISINTERPRETATION #1: LUNAMARIA HAS A SERIOUS ROMANTIC DISPOSITION TOWARDS
ATHRUN.
Since this is the most pervasive of the misinterpretations regarding Lunamaria's
actions, I will make light of this first. Most viewers would likely assume this,
either due to the fact that they like Athrun Zala, have not paid attention to
contextual nuances or not paying attention to the new characters at all, which
would be a shame, since I initially thought they were much better than the
original cast. To set the record straight, it is clear that what Lunamaria had
for Athrun could be analogous to a kohai's admiration to his/her senpai( as a
user already pointed out ), which simply put, is admiration, mixed with the
average woman's tendency to superficially prefer older or more
"stable"( sometimes synonymous to "mature" ) guys than one
from the same age bracket. The argument that it is "more than that "
is non-sequitur because of the following reasons:
A) Lunamaria only started to show apparent interest(than what was normal)
towards Athrun was when his real identity was revealed, since he went under the
guise of "Alex deNon"( or Alex Dino/Alex Dean ). This can be expressed
by her reaction when hearing his real name mentioned for the first time. (
Lunamaria: " Athrun Zala?[surprised]) If she was attracted by Athrun
HIMSELF and not mainly by his reputation as an ace or a living legend for ZAFT
during the previous war, the assertion that she was seriously "romantically
attracted" to him might be justified. Alas, this was not the case.
B) Another, more stubborn reason for the " It is more than that "
assertion regarding Lunamaria's feelings toward Athrun is THE "FACT"
THAT SHE WAS JEALOUS OF MEER( which she initially mistook for Lacus ). Why have
I placed quotations on the WHY? This is because it CANNOT be taken as a fact
that her subsequent actions were mainly due to jealousy or frustration with her
" failure to gain Athrun's attention" as some would interpret( of
course, this is a rather easy way to interpret why a person is reacting
negatively, this is where understanding motivations comes to fore, otherwise we
will be left with only our assumptions ). If you've paid sufficient neutral
attention to her actions during these events( especially after seeing Athrun and
Meer ), her reaction was not one of obvious jealousy, in fact very little of it
stemmed from jealousy at all. It was rather, a thinly disguised attempt at
hiding a mixture of irritation, a tad of jealousy and a LOT of disappointment.
Wait, disappointment? Why would she be disappointed with Athrun, or irritated
for that matter? Didn't she admire him and on occassion, developed some
superficial feelings( I use superficial as opposed to DEEP romantic feelings
since this was obviously not the case. ) for him?
The answer can be found in the question itself. It can be noticed that Lunamaria
projected Athrun to be more than he really is, as the case can be with people
meeting a person they admired ( it is clear that Athrun's exploits are like
legends to the ZAFT pilots, which would be reasonable, since almost everyone in
the military, may it be soldiers of PLANT or the Earth Alliance, have heard of
the " Three Shp Alliance's" [consequently, Athrun and Kira's] exploits
during the previous war which culminated in the famous battle of Jachin
Due...^_^)so much but never encountered in person. This is the case( in real
life ) of my friend Carol Brigham and a senior who is a very famous varsity when
we were freshmen( both of us are taking up Psychology ). Well, this senior, whom
I will not name for privacy reasons( anyway, I thought he was really a numbskull
when it comes to more serious aspects of life^^, he was just good-looking and
and happened to be very talented at basketball, he's got great reflexes, smooth
moves... oh, you get the picture...^^he wouldn't be interested in deep
discussions like this...basically not my type^^, not to take anything away from
Carol's preferences, hehe...) was a natural magnet for younger students( but not
too young...sick^^). Carol developed somewhat of a crush on him, despite never
having approached him personally ( up to this day, it still eludes me, maybe
because she's still conservative in some ways, were from Missouri, not New
York...^^), but asked his batchmates( the girls ) about personal details about
him, the usual; what he likes, what he doesn't like, the works, until, she had
herself a personal picture of him, not the correct one, mind you, but the
"idealized"one that she projected, which will either be: too perfect
or too critical. If it had been the latter, well it wouldn't be that bad.
Unfortunately, what she projected( projection- to make out(psychological term),
or to establish a mental portrait of; ) was too perfect and of course, failed to
meet her expectations.
( This projection also applies to fans of an actor/actress who research too much
about the details of their idol's life. Technically, not all characteristics of
the famous person would be known by just researching or reading his biographies
and profiles [ especially via the internet^^], so when they find out that he/or
she is a rude to fans, or doesn't really mind them, or better yet extremely
eccentric, they become somewhat disappointed, frustrated or irritated due to
their "idealized " projection of the individual.) When Carol met him
in person, he turned out to be a sort of dim person( but not in an amusing
way^^), somewhat rude, and practically clueless in discussions besides
basketball( I was there when he said that Badminton was for wimps, what a bright
opinion, with a huge smirk on his face^^), and enjoyed having women fawn over
him( how charming...xD). Needless to say, Carol was "turned off", and
with good reason I might add. Anyway, if your'e going to say that I went too far
using a personal matter like that as an example for a forul post, she is reading
this over my shoulder now, to make sure I don't slander the facts. Hehe^^.( I'm
using my laptop, we're both playing the part of owls researching Freud, only
I've decided to take a break...^^)
How does this long "anecdote" connect to the Lunamaria discussion, you
ask?
If you haven't figured the parallelism yet, here it is. Lunamaria Hawke new
Athrun Zala indirectly, i.e. from hearsay, or from second-hand information,
never having the chance to meet him in person prior to their encounter onboard
the Minerva( in which she displayed the normal level of attention you would give
to a stranger from Orb suddenly becoming a passenger to a ZAFT military vessel
). So, the picture that would normally be projected in her mind is an idealized
impression. If the reason for this is still unclear, here is the step by steb
recap:^^
A) Being trained as a member of an elite force, the crew of the Minerva, and any
military personnel, for that matter, would be inclined to view discipline as a
way to success( i.e., maintaining control of emotions[although Shinn is an
exception, and is frequently reprimanded because of it], following orders
explicitly, avoiding deviations in battle ). So, with Athrun's reputation as an
ace pilot and a legendary fighter in the last war, the crew of the Minerva(
except Shinn, Talia and Gilbert, if you want the reasons as to why they're
exempted, read my review of Gundam Seed Destiny^^), having encountered him for
the first time, would have projected him( i.e. formed a mental picture prior to
actually meeting him) as a straight-laced, highly disciplined and idealized
individual, in relation to his noteworthy accomplishments. You wouldn't assume
outright that a very successful military commander would have unorthodox traits,
because you actually assumed his personality according to his reputation, as
opposed to the other way around. Lunamaria is no exception to this projection.
She actually formed an idealized "version" of Athrun Zala based on
what she knew about him from indirect sources, so that when she actually met
him, she expected his personality to be exactly as she presumed.
Now, this brings us back to the reason as to why Lunamaria acted the way she did
when she first saw Meer and Athrun together.
To those who haven't found the answer( or at least, a huge chunk of it )yet, she
was for the most part frustrated and disappointed that her "idea" of
Athrun's personality was off-base^^, which was understandable, since she saw
only the incomplete picture, especially that scene when she saw Meer in Athrun's
room in a very suggestive manner^^. Give the girl a break. The fact of the
matter is, she assumed that Athrun Zala, the "legendary ZAFT pilot"
was very conservative, hardly turned his attention to women, and was
figuratively speaking, a very "stiff" and military-oriented person.
This misconception was actually an honest mistake and is very humorous( at least
for me)^^. So when she abruptly discovered that the real Athrun was still very
close to a teen-ager emotionally and behaviour-wise, despite his legendary
exploits, she was in a way, "turned-off" like my friend Carol. She
probably thought that he was a sort of "ladies man", the type who
enjoys women orbiting him like satellites.The way Athrun tried to set the record
straight after the incident with Meer was actually entertaining.
After that she mostly resorted to ignoring this " discovery" about
Athrun's personality and went about to focus on his more professional
attributes, hence, the scenes in which she convinces the latter to try out some
shooting exercises, the constant questions about his exploits as a pilot during
the last war, and other sequences which were assumed as "flirting" by
some viewers.
The perk is that whenever she sees Athrun with Meer, she feels a return of her
previous frustration over her perceived "misconception" of Athrun's
personality, and this prompts her to act negatively during such instances. In
this aspect , Luna is different from Carol, who immediately erased the
aforementioned "guy" from her memory banks after their first meeting,
but then, the said person is definitely no Athrun Zala, and has no chance of
being a legendary figure either^^. I hope I made the point clear about Luna's
negative reaction not being primarily out of jealousy as others have hastily
concluded.
MISINTERPRETATION # 2: LUNAMARIA WAS TERRIBLE TO HER SISTER MEYRIN
Another basis for some fans to attack Lunamaria's character would be the her
supposed apathy toward her younger sister, Meyrin. This is actually based on the
assumption that just because a sibling relationship does not adhere to certain
stereotypes( i.e. the " doting sister stereotype ", the "
obviously rivals " stereotype or the "dysfunctional setup" a la
Rekka and Kurei-sama in Rekka no Honou ), then one of them must be a problematic
character. This is the case between Lunamaria and Meyrin. Neither of them are
particularly meticulous about each other, as Lunamaria is the sort of older
sister that doesn't openly express feelings, and Meyrin is the type who would
willingly just let her older sister go about her business, as opposed to the
petulant and spoiled younger sibling stereotype. A perfect example of this would
be their scenes in the Minerva. As for the scene were Luna
"reprimanded" her sister for not visiting her in the infirmary, again,
its just another proof that she fits the superficially hard-edged older sister
type, which kinda reminds me of my own sister, three years older than me. She
has a tendency to reprimand me for the smallest things, but never did I get the
feeling that she "hated" me or was deliberately being stuck-up. It's
amazing how few noticed that although Luna was like this, Meyrin didn't harbor
any resent, and this is evidently not because she was just being nice ar simply
" enduring the torture^^", but because she knew deep inside that
although ner sister could be stubborn and immature sometimes, she genuinely
loved her.
As for her apparent interest in Athrun that she sometimes ignores Meyrin, this
actually happens in the initial episodes, so Lunamaria was still pretty much in
" hero admiration mode ". However, some important sequences clearly
illustrated that she truly valued her younger sister. During Athrun's escape
attempt, when Meyrin came out of the shower and opened the door, Lunamaria
remarked, "You look terrible." Other viewers simply took this as an
insult to Meyrin, and just another case of Lunamaria being "stuck'up"
or "mean" towards her sister. Keep in mind the context, Luna was
escorted by gendarmes, and they would be blind not to see that she just hastily
dressed after leaving the shower in a hurry. So, knowing Luna's personality( she
actually resembles Shinn in the aspect that they are both bluntly direct and
tactless when stating their opinions, which is not really that bothersome for me
), the " You look terrible. " comment was just her way of
saying," What are you thinking, coming out looking like you just came out
of the shower and barely dressed? Don't you see that the soldiers are gawking at
you? ", which was sufficiently proven when she cleared the soldiers from
the doorway. Taking into account that she didn't know her sister was covering
for the defecting Athrun, I don't think her actions during this scene were
"offensive", as some have asserted.
Another misconception is her lack of concern for Meyrin, especially when the
latter defected, and was subsequently, labeled a traitor and reported KIA( as
for the issue with Shinn, more on that after this...^^). First of all, it is
evident that being a member of the elite forces, unlike Meyrin who was a CIC,
Lunamaria received substantially higher levels of indoctrination. Simply hearing
a conversation about assassination attempts, impersonations of Lacus Clyne and
other things dicussed by Athrun and Kira during the secret meeting by the Orb
waterline would be unlikely to instill sufficient doubt in her mind. Let me
state it again, military indoctrination is not brainwashing, as some claim. This
usually stems from the belief that individual opinions are a prime accommodation
within the armed forces, caused by watching too many su-par war movies and
unfamiliarity with hoe things work inside the military in real life. People,
nowadays, especially those with no actual military knowledge whatsoever, think
that soldiers can be made to question their training just by hearing a contrary
or revelatory statement from an enemy. Sorry folks, my Grandpa actually
participated during the Normandy offensive in WWII, he landed on a beach called
Utah, and he used to tell us about how it really was during the war before he
passed away. I wouldn't really talk in detail about this, since remembering him
makes me sad. To be direct, he told us that some of the men in his company were
born in Germany and Poland, and most likely they would be meeting their brothers
or sisters in the front, since they would be fighting on different sides. He
said these soldiers hate it, but they would kill their relatives on the other
side if they are ordered upon to do so. It is sad, but this is the way real
conflict unfolds. Hardly like in the movies where everyone is constantly
questioning their reasons for going to war. For the most part, a soldier's
primary concern is not getting killed before accomplishing his objective. Real
war is seldom so dramatic. I suggest you read more about real warfare, tactics
and experiences before watching the Seed series, otherwise you'll assume that
real battle unfolds in the same way, which wouldn't be accurate, in any case.
Having stated this, It is obvious why Luna didn't became suspicious of ZAFT or
Gilbert's intentions. Are we so naive to think that during training soldiers are
not acquainted with the deceptive tactics that would normally be used by an
enemy to instill doubt to the opposing force or weaken their resolve? In this
case, the conversation was true, but any soldier of the opposing side worth his
salt wouldn't buy that unless he/she was a barely-trained raw
recruit^^.
The reason why Luna wasn't convinced even after Meyrin defected with Athrun, was
that( understandably ), she was under the opinion that Athrun took advantage of
Meyrin's minimal experience and naivete, forcing her into defecting with him.
Again, it is clear that Lunamaria was just overprotective of her sister, a
matter that I will discuss later on. She sees Meyrin as her responsibility, as
according to the back story, they lost their parents at a young age( a fact that
was not brought up during the series ). Remember her impression that Athrun
somehow "failed" her projected "image" of him? Now, his
defection, with Meyrin in tow, crushed that for good. Thr reason she blamed it
on Athrun is because what he is doing directly contradicts what Luna expected
him to be. She is angry and in denial, probably thinking: " The Athrun Zala
that I thought I knew was a lie. The legend is just another fallible man, and a
spineless and deceptive one at that( this in no way reflects my personal opinion
of Athrun^^, I'm just getting inside Luna's head as she was at that point in
time). Not only did he betray us, he took my sister as well( I will explain
later why this is NOT a sign of Luna's jelousy of Meyrin, just bear with me
until I get there.)! " She was actually worried about Meyrin, being
naturally a trusting person and easily confused or persuaded, and the fact that
Athrun "would make easy prey of her." These are not the thought
patterns of an apathetic or uncaring person if you ask me.
MISINTERPRETATION # 3: THE FLASHBACKS AT THE FINALE
For me, these are the sequences from which most misconceptions about Lunamaria's
character stemmed. Why she was thinking about what she was thinking during the
finale, which apparently so many people misunderstood it's almost funny. As she
attempts to egage Athrun in a fight during the Battle of Messiah( final episode
and the extended version ), Lunamaria utters these words: " What I can't
forgive is the fact that you took Meyrin!", and with the statement come a
string of flashbacks about Meer.
How this could possibly prove that Luna does not care about her sister is beyond
me. Again, as with all incomplete statements, some people really got it wrong,
which kinda reminds me about how everyone missed the entire point of The Matrix
Trilogy. The average viewer just fits the statement into what he/she is already
thinking, rather than trying to see the statement within the context. Some have
interpreted this as proof that Luna is jealous of Meyrin because Athrun chose
her, which is downright ludicrous. Another misinterpretation is that Luna was
still fuming over the Athrun and Meer thing , and I wouldn't even honor that
with a reply. Let us be neutral and explore the true context of that
scene:
A) It is unlikely that Lunamaria would be jealous of Meyrin and yet recall Meer
at the same time. It is out of context.
Think about it, shouldn't she be visualizing scenarios about Athrun and her
sister?
B) It is also non-sequitur to assume that if she's having flashbacks about Meer,
then she must still be fuming about that. What she
said(shouted ) definitely debunked that. If youwant to read it again, see above
.
*THE MEANING THAT MANY FAILED TO GET A HOLD OF:
Remember her belief that Athrun took advantage of her sister's innocence and
naivete? Also the idea that Athrun is actually a deceptive person after his
unpredictable behaviour? The fact that Luna mistook Meer for Lacus and(like any
crew of the Minerva)thus assumed that he was engaged? Technically Luna assumed
that Athrun was just deceiving Meyrin into believing that ZAFT was erring in
their stand and beliefs, due to her more intensive indoctrination as an elite
soldier.
Why the Meer flashback then?
After his defection, Athrun and Luna never really had communication with each
other again, so her negative impressions of him since he left would more or less
unchanged. When they met during the battle, be keen to note that Luna never
showed immediate signs of extreme anger towards Athrun. Only when she recalled
that he took Meyrin did we see her temper flaring.
For Luna, Athrun would only use Meyrin as she was under the impression that he
was engaged to Lacus Clyne( technically she doesn't know about Cagalli). It's
her way of saying: " YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO DO WHAT YOU WANT DON'T YOU? YOU
WANT TO DEFECT JUST LIKE THAT, YOU DID. YOU WANT TO JOIN THE ARCHANGEL AGAIN,
FINE, YOU DID. BUT WHAT IS UNFORGIVABLE IS YOU BROUGHT MY SISTER WITH YOU! WHAT
PLACE WILL SHE HAVE IN YOUR LIFE THEN, AS YOU'RE ALREADY COMMITED TO SOMEONE
ELSE( flashbacks about Meer, since she has no idea that the latter has been
killed)! ARE YOU GOING TO MAKE A FOOL OF MY SISTER JUST BECAUSE SHE REALLY
HAPPENS TO LIKE YOU AND WOULD SWALLOW EVERYTHING YOU SAY?"
Again, this is not the sentiments of one who is apathetic. The only thing that
resulted in the misinterpretation of the statement and the sequence as a whole
would be some viewers who already assumed what she wanted to say before she
actually uttered it.
Personally, I prefer Lunamaria over Meyrin. I think she was just protecting her
sister in her own way. I find Meyrin to be a little stereotypical as the shy
girl who secretly falls for the hero, descreetly seeks his attention etc.
MISINTERPRETATION # 4: LUNA AND MEYRIN WERE BOTH VYING FOR ATHRUN'S ROMANTIC
ATTENTION
This is another one for the ages . What made some people think that just because
a girl/woman wants to gain a boy/man's attention, it can automatically be
deduced that she is ROMANTICALLY interested in him. Again, see references to
MISINTERPRETATION # 1. What she had for Athrun was like a kohai's admiration for
a particularly famous senpai. As for scenes in which she overshadowed Meyrin
with regards to addressing Athrun. It is obvious that Luna is the more
straightforward and outspoken of the two. It is just a case of "your too
trusting, let me do the talking.", as these traits are pretty obvious of
Meyrin, paricularly how she really believes everything that Athrun said, just
because he said it . Simply put, I would prefer girl characters who are frank
and direct, but in reality are more cautious, other than one who seems shy and
demure, but is actually more gullible and easily persuaded.
Again, Luna and Meyrin were not a typical sweet sister relationship, but one
cannot deny that the former cared about her younger sister deeply.
Unfortunately, some don't seem to realize this.
MISINTERPRETATION # 5: HER TRUE FEELINGS ABOUT SHINN AND VICE VERSA
This will be the most challenging subject of all, especially considering that it
is one of the most common misconceptions and is composed of various elements.
Thus, I will address each of these in sections:
A) That there are no clues pertaining to the Shinn and Lunamaria relationship
prior to Stellar's death and Athrun and Meyrin's defection. For careful
observers, even at the beginning of the series, there were numerous clues that
point to these two as being a potential couple. Being familiar with the
storyline developments of the numerous anime that I've watched, the probability
is always high that two characters who seem mismatched but share qualities and
an understanding of each other to some degree will most likely end up with each
other. Although I will forever be a Stellar fan, her being one of the more
memorable characters in GSD despite her limited role in the series, the truth is
the criteria I've mentioned applies more applicably to Shinn and Lunamaria as a
pairing. It is sort of like Shinji and Asuka, although many believed he would
end up with Rei. Another example of that would be Cloud Strife and Aeris
Gainsborough, although he later proved to be more compatible to Tifa Lockhart
despite some protests from fans.
As a couple, Luna and Shinn had more experience together, having known each
other since their days in the Academy. Also, Shinn's relationship with Stellar
was more of a protective one rather than an actual "give and take"
relationship. Stellar wasn't really capble of "giving back" since,
sadly, her chance of living a normal life was forcibly stolen along with her
memories. It wasn't her fault really, she was just a victim of conflict, which
is ingrained in humanity since their early days of existence. Also, despite both
having tragic pasts, Shinn and Stellar didn't have that much in common.
I believe that Shinn saw Stellar, in a very deep and profound way, as a focal
point for his sorrow. She was a tragic figure, but also strangely innocent, the
second coming of his beloved sister Mayu. Not a replacement, but a kindred
spirit that needs protection most of all. When Stellar died Mayu died once more
in Shinn's heart.
B) Shinn and Lunamaria's similarities.
Some viewers overlooked clues that were present even during the initial episodes
in the series. It is clear that these two are people who blunt and direct when
stating their opinions, but not about their true feelings for each other, which
shouldn't come as a surprise. It kinda reminds me about Alucard and Integra,
they can say what they want when in the company of other people but never their
true views regarding each other. However, they have pretty much contrasting
attitudes, and this leads to people thinking that they don't have anything in
common at all, I'm talking about Shinn and Lunamaria here. She and Shinn are
both very repressed people, meaning they tend to be bowled over by their
emotions or their attempts to supress it that they have a hard time conveying
them properly. Although in the case of Shinn, this is more obvious, due to his
introverted nature, sharp remarks, and general animosity towards others. As for
Lunamaria, she usually disguises her doubts, aggravations or true feelings in a
facade of cheerfulness, thus some people would most likely find her to be a
dunce, or interpret this as pretentiousness. Yes, it is true that she was still
immature in some ways, stubborn and likely to jump into conclusions, but then,
who among us was so well-rounded as an individual that we never passed this
stage in life? We are, as I have said, human, quintessentially imperfect.
It can be noted that while no one else could get close to Shinn during his more
"chaotic" phases, especially after Heine's death, and most instances
were everyone's attitude toward him would be; " What the hell...let's come
back when he's in a better mood. ", Lunamaria was the only one who could
talk to him. Although most of the time Shinn would act nonchalant or bland
towards her, it can be discerned that he doesn't really resent the attention
given him by Lunamaria. He behaves like a stoic person who enjoys beautiful
music but would not let it show in his face, which makes it somewhat amusing for
me.
It is also hinted that during their days at the academy, Shinn, despite his
fiery temper and acidic disposition, was somewhat admired by most female cadets,
mainly due to his "bad-guy" attitide and superior skills as a pilot.
Being essentially a person who does not readily show her true feelings, it took
a long time for Lunamaria to actually admit to herself that she really cared
more about Shinn than she thought. Her character is technically a girl who
behaves like an attention-grabber on the outside, but is actually a conservative
somewhere inside the core.^^
3) Shinn's true feelings:
It is obvious that Shinn was a lot closer to Luna than he would admit to
himself. Essentially, he's really that sort of person, so, "Shikata ga
nai".^^ It is actually one of the things that made him an interesting
character. While he seems noncommital and coarse with regards to Lunamaria, he
doesn't really resent her presence. Most of the time, only Luna could get close
to him, besides Rey, when he is in a particularly dark mood.
Having said this, I don't think that their pairing was abrupt, or, as some term
it, sick. What happened in the latter part of the series was simply a
culmination of all the repressed feelings they had, being held back for a long
period of time. It isn't that they suddenly realized that "they loved each
other", rather they finally admitted to themselves that they have loved
each other for a long time.
Another misconception is regarding her supposed lack of negative reaction over
the fact that it was Shinn who executed the orderto terminate the defecting
Athrun, and consequently, Meyrin( whom I think is too gullible for her own
good...). Some claim that she is unjustified in blaming it all on Athrun.
Strange, since HE was the one who defected and turned his back on ZAFT once
again, so Luna would be very immature and unprofessional as a soldier not to
take into account that there was an order from the High Command regarding
traitors( I'm sure that members of the special forces are briefed about that
during training, for more info on that, research on the policies of the CIA and
the KGB regarding operatives who defect to the other side of the fence. ), and
he couldn't change it even if he wanted to, not if he wanted to maintain his
integrity as a soldier anyway.
She showed a flash of maturity in handling this situation. The assertion that
they "suddenly" became close to each other after the incident is
simply false. These two are like stars slowly moving toward each other since the
beginning of the series. I preferred her reaction to the usual crying and
screaming of " You killed _________! hate you!", and in this respect,
I prefer Luna from Fllay Alster, whose character in my opinion was overdone( but
not in a good way...).
Having said this, I don't think that Luna is "pointless" or a
"useless" character. It's just that some people didn't really care to
undertsand her motivations or actions that much, since they were so enamored
with the old characters, or simply don't pay attention to subtle clues.
Anyway, let me knoe what you think, if you've actually managed to read this^^
without getting eyesores. It's just that I had a lot to say about the subject
and focused on them in detail. Here's to understanding.^^
Have a nice day! Ganbarimasu!
First of all, I would like to make it clear that this thread is not merely a
reply to another opposite thread, but rather, my exegesis on aspects of
LUNAMARIA HAWKE's character and actions that were previously overlooked. She is
not my favourite character in GSD, that would be Stellar Louissier, but, in my
opinion, she's the one who really needs an exposition. It is time for a defense.
It is therefore my task to defend a most misunderstood female in the Seed
series. AN EXEGESIS TO THE " LUNA MARE."
Well, before I make my point clear, I'd like to say a few things that don't
necessarily tie up with Lunamaria's character at first glance. First of all I
don't think this post was really meant for character bashing and some words were
used out of sheer emotion or just for kicks( even I had to restrain myself
sometimes whenever I read statements that Kira Yamato is nothing short of a god,
especially in GSD... so there you go, I'm NOT fond of Gundam Seed's main "
protagonist ", but when I write my opinion about him, I normally try to
refrain from using words that are obviously too emotionally colored... ). Then
again the one who posted clearly stated that she/he would be open for dissenting
opinions( here's hoping that she/he would answer this opinion of mine in kind,
since its been a while when last I found a worthy opponent...hehe, sick ), so
someone who does not agree with what was written should just take the pill and
reason with tact and precision( something that few people consider when
emotionally stricken... ). After thoroughly reading this reply and considering
all the points that will be given, I hope she/he would answer each and everyone
of my statements with the same objectiveness, so this is it for the long haul.
First, I would like to curb the impression that I'm most likely a Lunamaria fan,
which is untrue( actually I'm a staunch supporter of the Shinn Asuka/Stellar
Louissier pairing, and am under the impression that it was one of the few
outstanding things in GSD... more on that on my review, so feel free to read it
and then post a comment if you like ). However, some of the points given in the
aforementioned post( and this is my opinion ), are somewhat invalid( which I
will of course try to point out ), or a little too emotionally colored. Having
read most of the replies regarding this subject matter, I get the impression
that those opposed to how Lunamaria's character turned out seemed too angry or
unobjective to convince me that they have a valid point pertaining to their
opinion of her being " a shallow character ", as well as some of those
who favor her. Having said this, I will declare first my stand on the matter. It
is true that she had traits that are somewhat negative( but then, so has every
other character in every other show that has been made since the dawn of
television broadcast ), but we are human after all, as a rule, we are imperfect.
Do those negative traits far out weigh the good ones in Lunamaria's case that
she is, as some assert, a " pointless character "? For me, and I think
for others with the same opinion as me, the answer is no.
Thus, I will be breaking down her character and her actions in various points
during the series, so as to elaborate on my reasons for making such a stand on
the matter.
First, all these statements will be guided by the following assumptions in
context and reference.
1. This assuming that all of the events in Destiny actually happened, in order
to prevent references to the makers, since the one who posted clearly mentioned
that this is about how Lunamaria's character turned out, as opposed to what she
might have been. If I deviate from this, I could elaborate on how the latter
half of GSD was a poorly written, confusing and schizophrenic failure due to
emphasis on marketing success rather than actual storytelling , but then, that
would be beside the point. One does not simply avoid what he doesn't like, or
simply write it off as terrible without validating his opinion objectively. So,
we will leave Fukuda out of this, like we should( lucky for him ).
2. However, I would like to request that the other side do the same as well. I
believe I read in the post that a statement from a staff member at Sunrise was
cited to prove that Lunamaria and Shinn were not in a close relationship( I
believe it was an interview ): i. e. " Shinn was never close to anyone on
the Minerva. ". While some would most likely use this as a reference to
support his/her opinion, it is not advisable to do so. The reasons are as
follows:
A. The director of GS and GSD( Fukuda himself ) actually contradicted this with
his statement in an interview. When asked about the romantic pairings in GSD,
his reply was as follows: " I think, of all the [existing] couples in GSD,
the only ones who are truly in love would be Shinn and Lunamaria, which was a
pre-existing scenario even fron the beginning of the series. Kira and Lacus have
already settle down, or have already passed the " in-love " stage, and
Athrun and Cagalli's were almost exclusively on a comrade-in-arms level[
although this might be questioned by fans of the particular pair, since
admittedlythe two did things that are mostly romance-related, if I may say so
]."
B. Another scenario writer pointed out in an interview that the Lunamaria and
Shinn pairing had been conceived from the beginning of the series, not, as some
claim, to be an abrupt replacement to the " aborted " Shinn and
Stellar pairing, and further added that clues can be found even at the initial
run of the series.
My point in citing these statements is to illustrate the fact that quotes from
the makers should not be used to validate points regarding a character's
motivations, actions or personality, especially when the person mentioned admits
that she is talking about the " character herself". Simply put, if one
could not cite Fukuda's inadequacies as director and overseer to be a reason for
Lunamaria's flaws as a character, one could NOT also use interviews/statements
from other members of the staff to validate their claims, since this would be a
type of " double-standard "( i. e. we can use it but you can't ).
Keep in mind that statements made during interviews/documentaries can be merely
opinions of the particular resource person himself/herself and could not be
treated as absolute fact, since it would be only from that particular persons
point of view and not a proven fact about the series itself( I remember reading
a documentary on the film Schindler's List that Steven Spielberg cited Oskar as
a "scoundrel saviour" and Amon Goeth as a "personification of
evil", while his sriptwriter, Stephen Zaillian, commented on how Amon was
just a " lost soul " and not on the same level as Lucifer , since
neither opinion could be deemed wrong or right, I choose not to quote these
statements as they would contradict each other.).
This would be applicable to statements of the production staff regarding aspects
or characters of GSD.
With those points being made clear( I think ), let us proceed to prove or
disprove the assertion that Lunamaria Hawke is " pointless " as a
character and why I disagree. This conclusion, in my opinion is based on the
following misunderstandings or contextual errors in interpretation of the
character's actions or her personality itself:
MISINTERPRETATION #1: LUNAMARIA HAS A SERIOUS ROMANTIC DISPOSITION TOWARDS
ATHRUN.
Since this is the most pervasive of the misinterpretations regarding Lunamaria's
actions, I will make light of this first. Most viewers would likely assume this,
either due to the fact that they like Athrun Zala, have not paid attention to
contextual nuances or not paying attention to the new characters at all, which
would be a shame, since I initially thought they were much better than the
original cast. To set the record straight, it is clear that what Lunamaria had
for Athrun could be analogous to a kohai's admiration to his/her senpai( as a
user already pointed out ), which simply put, is admiration, mixed with the
average woman's tendency to superficially prefer older or more
"stable"( sometimes synonymous to "mature" ) guys than one
from the same age bracket. The argument that it is "more than that "
is non-sequitur because of the following reasons:
A) Lunamaria only started to show apparent interest(than what was normal)
towards Athrun was when his real identity was revealed, since he went under the
guise of "Alex deNon"( or Alex Dino/Alex Dean ). This can be expressed
by her reaction when hearing his real name mentioned for the first time. (
Lunamaria: " Athrun Zala?[surprised]) If she was attracted by Athrun
HIMSELF and not mainly by his reputation as an ace or a living legend for ZAFT
during the previous war, the assertion that she was seriously "romantically
attracted" to him might be justified. Alas, this was not the case.
B) Another, more stubborn reason for the " It is more than that "
assertion regarding Lunamaria's feelings toward Athrun is THE "FACT"
THAT SHE WAS JEALOUS OF MEER( which she initially mistook for Lacus ). Why have
I placed quotations on the WHY? This is because it CANNOT be taken as a fact
that her subsequent actions were mainly due to jealousy or frustration with her
" failure to gain Athrun's attention" as some would interpret( of
course, this is a rather easy way to interpret why a person is reacting
negatively, this is where understanding motivations comes to fore, otherwise we
will be left with only our assumptions ). If you've paid sufficient neutral
attention to her actions during these events( especially after seeing Athrun and
Meer ), her reaction was not one of obvious jealousy, in fact very little of it
stemmed from jealousy at all. It was rather, a thinly disguised attempt at
hiding a mixture of irritation, a tad of jealousy and a LOT of disappointment.
Wait, disappointment? Why would she be disappointed with Athrun, or irritated
for that matter? Didn't she admire him and on occassion, developed some
superficial feelings( I use superficial as opposed to DEEP romantic feelings
since this was obviously not the case. ) for him?
The answer can be found in the question itself. It can be noticed that Lunamaria
projected Athrun to be more than he really is, as the case can be with people
meeting a person they admired ( it is clear that Athrun's exploits are like
legends to the ZAFT pilots, which would be reasonable, since almost everyone in
the military, may it be soldiers of PLANT or the Earth Alliance, have heard of
the " Three Shp Alliance's" [consequently, Athrun and Kira's] exploits
during the previous war which culminated in the famous battle of Jachin
Due...^_^)so much but never encountered in person. This is the case( in real
life ) of my friend Carol Brigham and a senior who is a very famous varsity when
we were freshmen( both of us are taking up Psychology ). Well, this senior, whom
I will not name for privacy reasons( anyway, I thought he was really a numbskull
when it comes to more serious aspects of life^^, he was just good-looking and
and happened to be very talented at basketball, he's got great reflexes, smooth
moves... oh, you get the picture...^^he wouldn't be interested in deep
discussions like this...basically not my type^^, not to take anything away from
Carol's preferences, hehe...) was a natural magnet for younger students( but not
too young...sick^^). Carol developed somewhat of a crush on him, despite never
having approached him personally ( up to this day, it still eludes me, maybe
because she's still conservative in some ways, were from Missouri, not New
York...^^), but asked his batchmates( the girls ) about personal details about
him, the usual; what he likes, what he doesn't like, the works, until, she had
herself a personal picture of him, not the correct one, mind you, but the
"idealized"one that she projected, which will either be: too perfect
or too critical. If it had been the latter, well it wouldn't be that bad.
Unfortunately, what she projected( projection- to make out(psychological term),
or to establish a mental portrait of; ) was too perfect and of course, failed to
meet her expectations.
( This projection also applies to fans of an actor/actress who research too much
about the details of their idol's life. Technically, not all characteristics of
the famous person would be known by just researching or reading his biographies
and profiles [ especially via the internet^^], so when they find out that he/or
she is a rude to fans, or doesn't really mind them, or better yet extremely
eccentric, they become somewhat disappointed, frustrated or irritated due to
their "idealized " projection of the individual.) When Carol met him
in person, he turned out to be a sort of dim person( but not in an amusing
way^^), somewhat rude, and practically clueless in discussions besides
basketball( I was there when he said that Badminton was for wimps, what a bright
opinion, with a huge smirk on his face^^), and enjoyed having women fawn over
him( how charming...xD). Needless to say, Carol was "turned off", and
with good reason I might add. Anyway, if your'e going to say that I went too far
using a personal matter like that as an example for a forul post, she is reading
this over my shoulder now, to make sure I don't slander the facts. Hehe^^.( I'm
using my laptop, we're both playing the part of owls researching Freud, only
I've decided to take a break...^^)
How does this long "anecdote" connect to the Lunamaria discussion, you
ask?
If you haven't figured the parallelism yet, here it is. Lunamaria Hawke new
Athrun Zala indirectly, i.e. from hearsay, or from second-hand information,
never having the chance to meet him in person prior to their encounter onboard
the Minerva( in which she displayed the normal level of attention you would give
to a stranger from Orb suddenly becoming a passenger to a ZAFT military vessel
). So, the picture that would normally be projected in her mind is an idealized
impression. If the reason for this is still unclear, here is the step by steb
recap:^^
A) Being trained as a member of an elite force, the crew of the Minerva, and any
military personnel, for that matter, would be inclined to view discipline as a
way to success( i.e., maintaining control of emotions[although Shinn is an
exception, and is frequently reprimanded because of it], following orders
explicitly, avoiding deviations in battle ). So, with Athrun's reputation as an
ace pilot and a legendary fighter in the last war, the crew of the Minerva(
except Shinn, Talia and Gilbert, if you want the reasons as to why they're
exempted, read my review of Gundam Seed Destiny^^), having encountered him for
the first time, would have projected him( i.e. formed a mental picture prior to
actually meeting him) as a straight-laced, highly disciplined and idealized
individual, in relation to his noteworthy accomplishments. You wouldn't assume
outright that a very successful military commander would have unorthodox traits,
because you actually assumed his personality according to his reputation, as
opposed to the other way around. Lunamaria is no exception to this projection.
She actually formed an idealized "version" of Athrun Zala based on
what she knew about him from indirect sources, so that when she actually met
him, she expected his personality to be exactly as she presumed.
Now, this brings us back to the reason as to why Lunamaria acted the way she did
when she first saw Meer and Athrun together.
To those who haven't found the answer( or at least, a huge chunk of it )yet, she
was for the most part frustrated and disappointed that her "idea" of
Athrun's personality was off-base^^, which was understandable, since she saw
only the incomplete picture, especially that scene when she saw Meer in Athrun's
room in a very suggestive manner^^. Give the girl a break. The fact of the
matter is, she assumed that Athrun Zala, the "legendary ZAFT pilot"
was very conservative, hardly turned his attention to women, and was
figuratively speaking, a very "stiff" and military-oriented person.
This misconception was actually an honest mistake and is very humorous( at least
for me)^^. So when she abruptly discovered that the real Athrun was still very
close to a teen-ager emotionally and behaviour-wise, despite his legendary
exploits, she was in a way, &qu
Waahh...I really liked Crayon Shin-chan, mainly becauseof the concept( I'm weird....remember?
)
and the dialogue. Especially around the adult characters in the show and how
flabbergasted they all are when they get a "taste" of Shin-chan.
Overall, it's among my most favourite anime comedies, even though it's obviously
aimed at kids. That's saying something about the approach of the Japanese to
young viewers..hehe 
.
--
" Humor is also timeless. "--Ebony Everlang
Whoa, didn't expect anyone to be able to bear with me regarding this loooong exposition.
Sorry guys, I'll try to cut down on the length next time, I mean really cut
down. I'm glad I put down my views into writing, though, since it sort of acts
like a chimney 
.
Anyway, I think Lunamaria as a character is all right, I think she did have good
moments in the series.
Although now I can say something about how Mitsuo Fukuda ruined the latter half of the series for the new characters. It's a shame, hopefully, the next chapter in the Gundam Series will be a return to the aspects that made it a legend in the first place.
Again, thanks for the understanding in this matter. Ganbarimasu!
--
" Death is but perchance to dream. To dream for all eternity. "
Nice to meet you! Welcome to MT and enjoy your stay.
Actually I was welcomed by these guys when I made my introduction, they're really wonderful people( and also weird
)
), he's really adamant about that, been in love with airplanes ever since he
was in first grade.
You're stationed in Okinawa? That's neat, kinda explains why you're totally into anime, aside from the fact that you're already a fan since you were a kid. Well, my younger brother wants to be in the Air Force when he grows up( I keep saying he'll have to wait a long time
Anyway, have a nice stay in MT, and feel free to add me to your friendlist
. See
you around!
--
" Death is but perchance to dream. To dream for all eternity. "--Vincent Volaju
Nee, I haven't been here for almost a day( I think
)!
Thanks for the welcome everyone! I'm still working on my next review, hopefully, I'll be more concise and be able to shorten the length( to prevent eyesores...
), but still keep it interesting and impartial. See you
around!
--
" Death is but perchance to dream. To dream for all eternity. "--Vincent Volaju
Square-Enix has grazed us with a generation of excellent classical and orchestral music through Final Fantasy. The ones I will always remember are:
Suteki Da Ne--especially the orchestral treatment they gave it, I felt like I was listening to the most elaborate and wonderful composition of all time
, its string crescendos and overture are exceptional, especially the string
notes at the last two choruses...waahhh! Sugoi! 
Melodies of Life--I prefer the Japanese version, but either of its versions are excellent. Emiko Shiratori has such a lovely voice.
Eyes on me--Faye Wong's haunting romantic ballad from FF8. It is certainly an ode to Laguna( he was my favorite character, followed by Seifer, Saquall and Quistis...
)
The Promised Land--the haunting Advent Children vocal masterpiece, its arrangement was so elaborate and the effect--utterly moving.
Aerith's theme, " Pure Heart "-- another theme that will stick with me forever
...
" To Zanarkand "--it received numerous variations and instrument treatments, my most favorite being the original piano version( I have played it over and over on the piano...
) and
the orchestral rendition played during Tidus' departure.
--
" Tell me about sorrow..."--Houko Kuwashima, from Shinkai no Kodoku
Well if you're looking for "haunting" music, I have a few( yeah right" suggestions
) although some of it aren't anime OSTs, they're definitely in the category
that you mentioned. I'll give you names of specific songs, and/or
albums/compilations/compositions:
1) " Haunted "--Blair Witch 2 soundtrack( pun intended
)
)
i.e., The Promised Land 
2) Final Fantasy: Advent Children soundtrack( some are not " haunting " music, but there are other compositions in there that'll fit with what you're looking for...
3) FF8 soundtrack collections, especially " Time Compression ", " The Extreme ", and " Silence and Motion "
4) Witch Hunter Robin OST, " Shell ",and " Half-pain "( my favourite )
5) Ergo Proxy ( pretty much all the contents are haunting )
6) Turn A-Gundam, i.e., Yoko Kanno's composition called " Moon "
7) Noir ( pretty much all of the OST )especially, " Secret Game ", " Le Grand Retour ", " Canta Per Me ", and " Salva Nos "
8) Albums of Within Temptation like " Mother Earth " and Silent Force "
9) FF9, " The Place I long to Return To ", and " Song of Memories "
10) Silent Hill OST ( chills down my spine...)
11) Blood the Last Vampire OST
Individual songs/compositions:
1) Sadness and Sorrow( Naruto )-based on the short piece called Hokage's Funeral
2) " Space Lion "--Yoko Kanno's composition for Cowboy Bebop
3) " Ensei ", " Memories of Fanelia " and " Sora's Folken "
4) " Lilium Est ", " Broken Wings " and " Anna Ni Issho Datta No Ni--Athrun's Feelings "
4) Max Payne Theme from the Official Max Payne Soundtrack
5) " Sora ", " Frozen Flower " and " Brothers "
Those are only some of what I listen to that can be considered " haunting ", hope this selection helps!
--
" Death is but perchance to dream. A dream that lasts for eternity. "--Vincent Volaju
The Seed series is one of those anime titles that really received nurturing in the music department: I had a hard time, as both Gundam Seed and GSD have top-notch songs, if you would discount some...er, not so good choices for the opening/ending OST, and of course, GSD's generic bagkground music.
OK, here we go....!
1) Shinkai no Kodoku
2) Akatsuki no Kuruma
3) Meteor
4) Reason
5) Hoshi no Tobira
6) Anna Ni Issho Datta No Ni
7) River
8) Invoke
9) Primal Innocence
10) Find the Way
Whew, it seems I've left some other great songs, but I only picked the top ten...otherwise this would be a very loong list!
--
" Tell me about sorrow..."--Houko Kuwashima, from Shinkai no Kodoku
That's an interesting post, as I have so many songs that are stuck in my head, sometimes I even hum them while in class or in the library
...
If it's gonna be a mainsteam song, well I would have to say...hmmm, " Blurry ", that song sort of fits Rau le Creuset, and also " The World I Know ", as well as " My Immortal ", which I believe is an accidental ode to Shinn Asuka. I'm working on an AMV with that song as tribute to Shinn and Stellar, now I'll just have to find a way to add it to my userpage, otherwise, you can view it( if I ever finish it...
) at Youtube.com, where there are also lots of great Shinn/Stellar
videos.
If it's an anime song, that would be a tie between " Shinkai no Kodoku ", which made me cry the first time I heard it( and still forces a lump in my throat...
),
and " Link " from Fullmetal Alchemist, a song from L'arc that was used
in its movie spin-off " The Conqueror of Shamballa ".
--
" Tell me about sorrow..."--Houko Kuwashima, from the first stanza of Shinkai no Kodoku
Hey there! Welcome to MT! Enjoy your stay!
It's never really too late to make your entrance( well except maybe after months and months...
) This is coming from someone who actually wrote two reviews before making her
presence known... 
Pleased to meet you and may you have a nice weekend( unfortunately, the same cannot be said regarding myself...yargh
research....)!
--
" Death is but perchance to dream. A dream that lasts for eternity. "--Vincent Volaju
Hello there Odeena-kun!
Well, I've been where you are now, so giving advice should be fairly easy ( haha, yeah right!
)
Seriously though, here are some tips( actually, some of them have already been mentioned by my esteemed co-users...
)
from " Anne's Book of Knowledge "( pages turning...rustle, rustle 
):
1) Find a relatively nice, quiet or superficially orderly
place
to settle down. Make sure it's within very manageable distance to the uni. That,
or just settle for the dorms, where life will be anything but peaceful, hehe. I
chose the second route, and am currently paying dearly for it 
.
2)Make sure you always keep in touch back home, so you would be able to share your problems and ask for some advice or emotional support( yeah right, my sis NEVER gave me any...
)
3)Make sure you memorize routes to the nearest resources( i.e., convenient stores, groceries, or hardware shops, because rooms more often than not need personal repairs, or at least some tune-ups...teeheee
),
and aqcuaint yourself with your campus as a whole, and fast. I know this from
the experience of being lost in my own campus...yarghh 
.
4)Establish friendly, or at least civil
relationships with your neighbors/dormmates even though they could sometimes be
weird( like me! 
),
especially if you're all from different areas and have all sorts of err,
unfamiliar customs 
.
Our dorm is so diverse it could be likened to Mos Eisley( especially the scum
and villainy part 
...). Ohh, and nothing beats being really close to store owners, what with the
discounts and stuff. 
5)Don't hype up on the furniture and the utensils. Trying to immediately create the "home" feel will lead you to focus too much in domestic comfort and lag on other necessities. If there's a fairly good and varied shop in town, strike deals with the storekeepers, and don't give in to all their sales talk, especially when they say, " Oh, if you're going to buy this, then you should ALSO buy this, and this...
." Just get what you need but also make sure that it fits your place and
wouldn't clutter it. 
6)Accumulate " anti-boredom " measures. Reading material is very recommendable. It also helps to read the daily paper, as well as self-help books( like the cooking tips, to avoid living too much of instant food, haha, like yours truly
).
7)Be careful of the laundry levels. Always make sure that clothes are always in good shape even though you don't really wear some of them that much. It also helps to have a laundromat in town, or at least, someone who does laundry for reasonable pay. If this is the case, never forget to mark your clothes, and aqcuaint yourself with the owner or keepers. Don't wash only the necessary clothes, so you'll have a clean selection when you need it.
8)When in dire straits, settle for instant food, preferably dried vegetables and canned meat, or seafoods( but not too much ). When this happens, buy lots of fruit( oranges, strawberries or pineapples ) to balance out all those preservatives. And tomatoes, never forget 'em
.
9)Remember cooking necessities, but don't get a grill right away, because chances are someone else already has. If you like grilled stuff, it'll be much better to buy them rather than prepare them, since it costs more and takes up time.
10)Containers are your best friend, durable boxes, and plastic holders. Also, make sure you put them in a mamageable space.
.
As for the bathroom and toilet stuff...they're invaluable
11)Cleaning stuff, preferably neutral ones, beacause too much concentrated cleaners produce quite an odor
. Medicine( even if you've got the immunity rate of a coordinator ), vitamins,
and health supplements also would be a big help.
12)Monitor garbage level, and collection schedules. Again general awareness of your new surrounding helps a lot
. Ease
up on the sweets, they attract bugs 
,
and find a water station, as well as the nearest church 
.
13)The most important part, enjoy your this new stage of your life( Uni-life is like a storm, you sort of weather it, and weathering it with friends is the best thing...
), meet new people, open up( but don't lose your guard for the
occassional sicko 
),
join campus clubs and the like. Preferably, it'll be easier and more fun to live
with a friend whose also from your area, but that can't really be the case
everytime.
Anyway, hope this looong
blabbing helps. Wish you the best and nothing short of it.
Ganbare, Odeena-kun!
(
closes book...)
--
" Humor is also timeless. "--Ebony Everlang
Waahh, that's an interesting question, teehee...
Personally, there are somethings that I'd like to do during weekends, but can't
,
ohh, the humanity!
Now, for the question, technically, I have a " normal " social life, besides being an otaku, normal as in my social circle isn't really huge, but not also not really small( I think the theory that otakus have a non-existent social life is totally bunk
,
because we DO. Right guys? Uhhh...guys? 
), and its kind of a mixed bag, since it sort of "assimilated" my
boyfriend's social circle a bit, which I think is inevitable...haha! 
Well, my answer would be, PARTYING all night, but unfortunately, that wouldn't be possible given my situation.
What I actually do during weekends would vary from, having a date( or an argument...
), having a get-together at the dorms( research...or die! 
),
hanging out with friends, or watching DVDs. Did I mention research 
? Anyway, I guess me and my bestfriend Carol have more or less the same type
of social life, although hers is more exotic( sorry 'bout that
Carol...NOT!)
Ahhh, I think I've written enough weirdness for now, so I'll see you around!
Keep ze love alive! Ganbarimasu! 
--
" Carry your heart to where you sense the cold comfort. Carry your heart to beyond. "--Message 9
Personally, I don't think people consider chatrooms as an immediate option anymore. I mean, sometime ago( or so I thought
), chatrooms were very visible and lots of people were participating, but now,
well let's just say they aren't the " fad " nowadays. 
Some users actually contributed to this because of extreme rudeness, lack of
online ethics and overtly lewd topics 
. So,
nope, I don't really consider chatrooms as very viable these days. Although of
course, the interface in MMORPG's still remind me of them. 
By the way, thanks for the welcome. I really appreciate it.
--
" Carry your heart to where you sense the cold comfort. Carry your heart to beyond. "--Message 9
Tehee! Thanks for the warm welcome, everyone! I'll be posting another review soon. Ganbarimasu!
--
"Sadness is timeless."--Yushiro Gowa
I'm sorry about that, my keyboards a little unresponsive and I hit the enter key three times. Feel free to delete the two extra posts. Sorry!
--
"Sadness is timeless."--Yushiro Gowa
First of all, I would like to make it clear that this thread is not merely a reply to another opposite thread, but rather, my exegesis on aspects of LUNAMARIA HAWKE's character and actions that were previously overlooked. She is not my favourite character in GSD, that would be Stellar Louissier, but, in my opinion, she's the one who really needs an exposition. It is time for a defense. It is therefore my task to defend a most misunderstood female in the Seed series. AN EXEGESIS TO THE " LUNA MARE."
Well, before I make my point clear, I'd like to say a few things that don't necessarily tie up with Lunamaria's character at first glance. First of all I don't think this post was really meant for character bashing and some words were used out of sheer emotion or just for kicks( even I had to restrain myself sometimes whenever I read statements that Kira Yamato is nothing short of a god, especially in GSD... so there you go, I'm NOT fond of Gundam Seed's main " protagonist ", but when I write my opinion about him, I normally try to refrain from using words that are obviously too emotionally colored... ). Then again the one who posted clearly stated that she/he would be open for dissenting opinions( here's hoping that she/he would answer this opinion of mine in kind, since its been a while when last I found a worthy opponent...hehe, sick ), so someone who does not agree with what was written should just take the pill and reason with tact and precision( something that few people consider when emotionally stricken... ). After thoroughly reading this reply and considering all the points that will be given, I hope she/he would answer each and everyone of my statements with the same objectiveness, so this is it for the long haul.
First, I would like to curb the impression that I'm most likely a Lunamaria fan, which is untrue( actually I'm a staunch supporter of the Shinn Asuka/Stellar Louissier pairing, and am under the impression that it was one of the few outstanding things in GSD... more on that on my review, so feel free to read it and then post a comment if you like ). However, some of the points given in the aforementioned post( and this is my opinion ), are somewhat invalid( which I will of course try to point out ), or a little too emotionally colored. Having read most of the replies regarding this subject matter, I get the impression that those opposed to how Lunamaria's character turned out seemed too angry or unobjective to convince me that they have a valid point pertaining to their opinion of her being " a shallow character ", as well as some of those who favor her. Having said this, I will declare first my stand on the matter. It is true that she had traits that are somewhat negative( but then, so has every other character in every other show that has been made since the dawn of television broadcast ), but we are human after all, as a rule, we are imperfect. Do those negative traits far out weigh the good ones in Lunamaria's case that she is, as some assert, a " pointless character "? For me, and I think for others with the same opinion as me, the answer is no.
Thus, I will be breaking down her character and her actions in various points during the series, so as to elaborate on my reasons for making such a stand on the matter.
First, all these statements will be guided by the following assumptions in context and reference.
1. This assuming that all of the events in Destiny actually happened, in order to prevent references to the makers, since the one who posted clearly mentioned that this is about how Lunamaria's character turned out, as opposed to what she might have been. If I deviate from this, I could elaborate on how the latter half of GSD was a poorly written, confusing and schizophrenic failure due to emphasis on marketing success rather than actual storytelling , but then, that would be beside the point. One does not simply avoid what he doesn't like, or simply write it off as terrible without validating his opinion objectively. So, we will leave Fukuda out of this, like we should( lucky for him ).
2. However, I would like to request that the other side do the same as well. I believe I read in the post that a statement from a staff member at Sunrise was cited to prove that Lunamaria and Shinn were not in a close relationship( I believe it was an interview ): i. e. " Shinn was never close to anyone on the Minerva. ". While some would most likely use this as a reference to support his/her opinion, it is not advisable to do so. The reasons are as follows:
A. The director of GS and GSD( Fukuda himself ) actually contradicted this with his statement in an interview. When asked about the romantic pairings in GSD, his reply was as follows: " I think, of all the [existing] couples in GSD, the only ones who are truly in love would be Shinn and Lunamaria, which was a pre-existing scenario even fron the beginning of the series. Kira and Lacus have already settle down, or have already passed the " in-love " stage, and Athrun and Cagalli's were almost exclusively on a comrade-in-arms level[ although this might be questioned by fans of the particular pair, since admittedlythe two did things that are mostly romance-related, if I may say so ]."
B. Another scenario writer pointed out in an interview that the Lunamaria and Shinn pairing had been conceived from the beginning of the series, not, as some claim, to be an abrupt replacement to the " aborted " Shinn and Stellar pairing, and further added that clues can be found even at the initial run of the series.
My point in citing these statements is to illustrate the fact that quotes from the makers should not be used to validate points regarding a character's motivations, actions or personality, especially when the person mentioned admits that she is talking about the " character herself". Simply put, if one could not cite Fukuda's inadequacies as director and overseer to be a reason for Lunamaria's flaws as a character, one could NOT also use interviews/statements from other members of the staff to validate their claims, since this would be a type of " double-standard "( i. e. we can use it but you can't ).
Keep in mind that statements made during interviews/documentaries can be merely opinions of the particular resource person himself/herself and could not be treated as absolute fact, since it would be only from that particular persons point of view and not a proven fact about the series itself( I remember reading a documentary on the film Schindler's List that Steven Spielberg cited Oskar as a "scoundrel saviour" and Amon Goeth as a "personification of evil", while his sriptwriter, Stephen Zaillian, commented on how Amon was just a " lost soul " and not on the same level as Lucifer , since neither opinion could be deemed wrong or right, I choose not to quote these statements as they would contradict each other.).
This would be applicable to statements of the production staff regarding aspects or characters of GSD.
With those points being made clear( I think ), let us proceed to prove or disprove the assertion that Lunamaria Hawke is " pointless " as a character and why I disagree. This conclusion, in my opinion is based on the following misunderstandings or contextual errors in interpretation of the character's actions or her personality itself:
MISINTERPRETATION #1: LUNAMARIA HAS A SERIOUS ROMANTIC DISPOSITION TOWARDS ATHRUN.
Since this is the most pervasive of the misinterpretations regarding Lunamaria's actions, I will make light of this first. Most viewers would likely assume this, either due to the fact that they like Athrun Zala, have not paid attention to contextual nuances or not paying attention to the new characters at all, which would be a shame, since I initially thought they were much better than the original cast. To set the record straight, it is clear that what Lunamaria had for Athrun could be analogous to a kohai's admiration to his/her senpai( as a user already pointed out ), which simply put, is admiration, mixed with the average woman's tendency to superficially prefer older or more "stable"( sometimes synonymous to "mature" ) guys than one from the same age bracket. The argument that it is "more than that " is non-sequitur because of the following reasons:
A) Lunamaria only started to show apparent interest(than what was normal) towards Athrun was when his real identity was revealed, since he went under the guise of "Alex deNon"( or Alex Dino/Alex Dean ). This can be expressed by her reaction when hearing his real name mentioned for the first time. ( Lunamaria: " Athrun Zala?[surprised]) If she was attracted by Athrun HIMSELF and not mainly by his reputation as an ace or a living legend for ZAFT during the previous war, the assertion that she was seriously "romantically attracted" to him might be justified. Alas, this was not the case.
B) Another, more stubborn reason for the " It is more than that " assertion regarding Lunamaria's feelings toward Athrun is THE "FACT" THAT SHE WAS JEALOUS OF MEER( which she initially mistook for Lacus ). Why have I placed quotations on the WHY? This is because it CANNOT be taken as a fact that her subsequent actions were mainly due to jealousy or frustration with her " failure to gain Athrun's attention" as some would interpret( of course, this is a rather easy way to interpret why a person is reacting negatively, this is where understanding motivations comes to fore, otherwise we will be left with only our assumptions ). If you've paid sufficient neutral attention to her actions during these events( especially after seeing Athrun and Meer ), her reaction was not one of obvious jealousy, in fact very little of it stemmed from jealousy at all. It was rather, a thinly disguised attempt at hiding a mixture of irritation, a tad of jealousy and a LOT of disappointment. Wait, disappointment? Why would she be disappointed with Athrun, or irritated for that matter? Didn't she admire him and on occassion, developed some superficial feelings( I use superficial as opposed to DEEP romantic feelings since this was obviously not the case. ) for him?
The answer can be found in the question itself. It can be noticed that Lunamaria projected Athrun to be more than he really is, as the case can be with people meeting a person they admired ( it is clear that Athrun's exploits are like legends to the ZAFT pilots, which would be reasonable, since almost everyone in the military, may it be soldiers of PLANT or the Earth Alliance, have heard of the " Three Shp Alliance's" [consequently, Athrun and Kira's] exploits during the previous war which culminated in the famous battle of Jachin Due...^_^)so much but never encountered in person. This is the case( in real life ) of my friend Carol Brigham and a senior who is a very famous varsity when we were freshmen( both of us are taking up Psychology ). Well, this senior, whom I will not name for privacy reasons( anyway, I thought he was really a numbskull when it comes to more serious aspects of life^^, he was just good-looking and and happened to be very talented at basketball, he's got great reflexes, smooth moves... oh, you get the picture...^^he wouldn't be interested in deep discussions like this...basically not my type^^, not to take anything away from Carol's preferences, hehe...) was a natural magnet for younger students( but not too young...sick^^). Carol developed somewhat of a crush on him, despite never having approached him personally ( up to this day, it still eludes me, maybe because she's still conservative in some ways, were from Missouri, not New York...^^), but asked his batchmates( the girls ) about personal details about him, the usual; what he likes, what he doesn't like, the works, until, she had herself a personal picture of him, not the correct one, mind you, but the "idealized"one that she projected, which will either be: too perfect or too critical. If it had been the latter, well it wouldn't be that bad. Unfortunately, what she projected( projection- to make out(psychological term), or to establish a mental portrait of; ) was too perfect and of course, failed to meet her expectations.
( This projection also applies to fans of an actor/actress who research too much about the details of their idol's life. Technically, not all characteristics of the famous person would be known by just researching or reading his biographies and profiles [ especially via the internet^^], so when they find out that he/or she is a rude to fans, or doesn't really mind them, or better yet extremely eccentric, they become somewhat disappointed, frustrated or irritated due to their "idealized " projection of the individual.) When Carol met him in person, he turned out to be a sort of dim person( but not in an amusing way^^), somewhat rude, and practically clueless in discussions besides basketball( I was there when he said that Badminton was for wimps, what a bright opinion, with a huge smirk on his face^^), and enjoyed having women fawn over him( how charming...xD). Needless to say, Carol was "turned off", and with good reason I might add. Anyway, if your'e going to say that I went too far using a personal matter like that as an example for a forul post, she is reading this over my shoulder now, to make sure I don't slander the facts. Hehe^^.( I'm using my laptop, we're both playing the part of owls researching Freud, only I've decided to take a break...^^)
How does this long "anecdote" connect to the Lunamaria discussion, you ask?
If you haven't figured the parallelism yet, here it is. Lunamaria Hawke new Athrun Zala indirectly, i.e. from hearsay, or from second-hand information, never having the chance to meet him in person prior to their encounter onboard the Minerva( in which she displayed the normal level of attention you would give to a stranger from Orb suddenly becoming a passenger to a ZAFT military vessel ). So, the picture that would normally be projected in her mind is an idealized impression. If the reason for this is still unclear, here is the step by steb recap:^^
A) Being trained as a member of an elite force, the crew of the Minerva, and any military personnel, for that matter, would be inclined to view discipline as a way to success( i.e., maintaining control of emotions[although Shinn is an exception, and is frequently reprimanded because of it], following orders explicitly, avoiding deviations in battle ). So, with Athrun's reputation as an ace pilot and a legendary fighter in the last war, the crew of the Minerva( except Shinn, Talia and Gilbert, if you want the reasons as to why they're exempted, read my review of Gundam Seed Destiny^^), having encountered him for the first time, would have projected him( i.e. formed a mental picture prior to actually meeting him) as a straight-laced, highly disciplined and idealized individual, in relation to his noteworthy accomplishments. You wouldn't assume outright that a very successful military commander would have unorthodox traits, because you actually assumed his personality according to his reputation, as opposed to the other way around. Lunamaria is no exception to this projection. She actually formed an idealized "version" of Athrun Zala based on what she knew about him from indirect sources, so that when she actually met him, she expected his personality to be exactly as she presumed.
Now, this brings us back to the reason as to why Lunamaria acted the way she did when she first saw Meer and Athrun together.
To those who haven't found the answer( or at least, a huge chunk of it )yet, she was for the most part frustrated and disappointed that her "idea" of Athrun's personality was off-base^^, which was understandable, since she saw only the incomplete picture, especially that scene when she saw Meer in Athrun's room in a very suggestive manner^^. Give the girl a break. The fact of the matter is, she assumed that Athrun Zala, the "legendary ZAFT pilot" was very conservative, hardly turned his attention to women, and was figuratively speaking, a very "stiff" and military-oriented person. This misconception was actually an honest mistake and is very humorous( at least for me)^^. So when she abruptly discovered that the real Athrun was still very close to a teen-ager emotionally and behaviour-wise, despite his legendary exploits, she was in a way, "turned-off" like my friend Carol. She probably thought that he was a sort of "ladies man", the type who enjoys women orbiting him like satellites.The way Athrun tried to set the record straight after the incident with Meer was actually entertaining.
After that she mostly resorted to ignoring this " discovery" about Athrun's personality and went about to focus on his more professional attributes, hence, the scenes in which she convinces the latter to try out some shooting exercises, the constant questions about his exploits as a pilot during the last war, and other sequences which were assumed as "flirting" by some viewers.
The perk is that whenever she sees Athrun with Meer, she feels a return of her previous frustration over her perceived "misconception" of Athrun's personality, and this prompts her to act negatively during such instances. In this aspect , Luna is different from Carol, who immediately erased the aforementioned "guy" from her memory banks after their first meeting, but then, the said person is definitely no Athrun Zala, and has no chance of being a legendary figure either^^. I hope I made the point clear about Luna's negative reaction not being primarily out of jealousy as others have hastily concluded.
MISINTERPRETATION # 2: LUNAMARIA WAS TERRIBLE TO HER SISTER MEYRIN
Another basis for some fans to attack Lunamaria's character would be the her supposed apathy toward her younger sister, Meyrin. This is actually based on the assumption that just because a sibling relationship does not adhere to certain stereotypes( i.e. the " doting sister stereotype ", the " obviously rivals " stereotype or the "dysfunctional setup" a la Rekka and Kurei-sama in Rekka no Honou ), then one of them must be a problematic character. This is the case between Lunamaria and Meyrin. Neither of them are particularly meticulous about each other, as Lunamaria is the sort of older sister that doesn't openly express feelings, and Meyrin is the type who would willingly just let her older sister go about her business, as opposed to the petulant and spoiled younger sibling stereotype. A perfect example of this would be their scenes in the Minerva. As for the scene were Luna "reprimanded" her sister for not visiting her in the infirmary, again, its just another proof that she fits the superficially hard-edged older sister type, which kinda reminds me of my own sister, three years older than me. She has a tendency to reprimand me for the smallest things, but never did I get the feeling that she "hated" me or was deliberately being stuck-up. It's amazing how few noticed that although Luna was like this, Meyrin didn't harbor any resent, and this is evidently not because she was just being nice ar simply " enduring the torture^^", but because she knew deep inside that although ner sister could be stubborn and immature sometimes, she genuinely loved her.
As for her apparent interest in Athrun that she sometimes ignores Meyrin, this actually happens in the initial episodes, so Lunamaria was still pretty much in " hero admiration mode ". However, some important sequences clearly illustrated that she truly valued her younger sister. During Athrun's escape attempt, when Meyrin came out of the shower and opened the door, Lunamaria remarked, "You look terrible." Other viewers simply took this as an insult to Meyrin, and just another case of Lunamaria being "stuck'up" or "mean" towards her sister. Keep in mind the context, Luna was escorted by gendarmes, and they would be blind not to see that she just hastily dressed after leaving the shower in a hurry. So, knowing Luna's personality( she actually resembles Shinn in the aspect that they are both bluntly direct and tactless when stating their opinions, which is not really that bothersome for me ), the " You look terrible. " comment was just her way of saying," What are you thinking, coming out looking like you just came out of the shower and barely dressed? Don't you see that the soldiers are gawking at you? ", which was sufficiently proven when she cleared the soldiers from the doorway. Taking into account that she didn't know her sister was covering for the defecting Athrun, I don't think her actions during this scene were "offensive", as some have asserted.
Another misconception is her lack of concern for Meyrin, especially when the latter defected, and was subsequently, labeled a traitor and reported KIA( as for the issue with Shinn, more on that after this...^^). First of all, it is evident that being a member of the elite forces, unlike Meyrin who was a CIC, Lunamaria received substantially higher levels of indoctrination. Simply hearing a conversation about assassination attempts, impersonations of Lacus Clyne and other things dicussed by Athrun and Kira during the secret meeting by the Orb waterline would be unlikely to instill sufficient doubt in her mind. Let me state it again, military indoctrination is not brainwashing, as some claim. This usually stems from the belief that individual opinions are a prime accommodation within the armed forces, caused by watching too many su-par war movies and unfamiliarity with hoe things work inside the military in real life. People, nowadays, especially those with no actual military knowledge whatsoever, think that soldiers can be made to question their training just by hearing a contrary or revelatory statement from an enemy. Sorry folks, my Grandpa actually participated during the Normandy offensive in WWII, he landed on a beach called Utah, and he used to tell us about how it really was during the war before he passed away. I wouldn't really talk in detail about this, since remembering him makes me sad. To be direct, he told us that some of the men in his company were born in Germany and Poland, and most likely they would be meeting their brothers or sisters in the front, since they would be fighting on different sides. He said these soldiers hate it, but they would kill their relatives on the other side if they are ordered upon to do so. It is sad, but this is the way real conflict unfolds. Hardly like in the movies where everyone is constantly questioning their reasons for going to war. For the most part, a soldier's primary concern is not getting killed before accomplishing his objective. Real war is seldom so dramatic. I suggest you read more about real warfare, tactics and experiences before watching the Seed series, otherwise you'll assume that real battle unfolds in the same way, which wouldn't be accurate, in any case.
Having stated this, It is obvious why Luna didn't became suspicious of ZAFT or Gilbert's intentions. Are we so naive to think that during training soldiers are not acquainted with the deceptive tactics that would normally be used by an enemy to instill doubt to the opposing force or weaken their resolve? In this case, the conversation was true, but any soldier of the opposing side worth his salt wouldn't buy that unless he/she was a barely-trained raw recruit^^.
The reason why Luna wasn't convinced even after Meyrin defected with Athrun, was that( understandably ), she was under the opinion that Athrun took advantage of Meyrin's minimal experience and naivete, forcing her into defecting with him. Again, it is clear that Lunamaria was just overprotective of her sister, a matter that I will discuss later on. She sees Meyrin as her responsibility, as according to the back story, they lost their parents at a young age( a fact that was not brought up during the series ). Remember her impression that Athrun somehow "failed" her projected "image" of him? Now, his defection, with Meyrin in tow, crushed that for good. Thr reason she blamed it on Athrun is because what he is doing directly contradicts what Luna expected him to be. She is angry and in denial, probably thinking: " The Athrun Zala that I thought I knew was a lie. The legend is just another fallible man, and a spineless and deceptive one at that( this in no way reflects my personal opinion of Athrun^^, I'm just getting inside Luna's head as she was at that point in time). Not only did he betray us, he took my sister as well( I will explain later why this is NOT a sign of Luna's jelousy of Meyrin, just bear with me until I get there.)! " She was actually worried about Meyrin, being naturally a trusting person and easily confused or persuaded, and the fact that Athrun "would make easy prey of her." These are not the thought patterns of an apathetic or uncaring person if you ask me.
MISINTERPRETATION # 3: THE FLASHBACKS AT THE FINALE
For me, these are the sequences from which most misconceptions about Lunamaria's character stemmed. Why she was thinking about what she was thinking during the finale, which apparently so many people misunderstood it's almost funny. As she attempts to egage Athrun in a fight during the Battle of Messiah( final episode and the extended version ), Lunamaria utters these words: " What I can't forgive is the fact that you took Meyrin!", and with the statement come a string of flashbacks about Meer.
How this could possibly prove that Luna does not care about her sister is beyond me. Again, as with all incomplete statements, some people really got it wrong, which kinda reminds me about how everyone missed the entire point of The Matrix Trilogy. The average viewer just fits the statement into what he/she is already thinking, rather than trying to see the statement within the context. Some have interpreted this as proof that Luna is jealous of Meyrin because Athrun chose her, which is downright ludicrous. Another misinterpretation is that Luna was still fuming over the Athrun and Meer thing , and I wouldn't even honor that with a reply. Let us be neutral and explore the true context of that scene:
A) It is unlikely that Lunamaria would be jealous of Meyrin and yet recall Meer at the same time. It is out of context.
Think about it, shouldn't she be visualizing scenarios about Athrun and her sister?
B) It is also non-sequitur to assume that if she's having flashbacks about Meer, then she must still be fuming about that. What she
said(shouted ) definitely debunked that. If youwant to read it again, see above .
*THE MEANING THAT MANY FAILED TO GET A HOLD OF:
Remember her belief that Athrun took advantage of her sister's innocence and naivete? Also the idea that Athrun is actually a deceptive person after his unpredictable behaviour? The fact that Luna mistook Meer for Lacus and(like any crew of the Minerva)thus assumed that he was engaged? Technically Luna assumed that Athrun was just deceiving Meyrin into believing that ZAFT was erring in their stand and beliefs, due to her more intensive indoctrination as an elite soldier.
Why the Meer flashback then?
After his defection, Athrun and Luna never really had communication with each other again, so her negative impressions of him since he left would more or less unchanged. When they met during the battle, be keen to note that Luna never showed immediate signs of extreme anger towards Athrun. Only when she recalled that he took Meyrin did we see her temper flaring.
For Luna, Athrun would only use Meyrin as she was under the impression that he was engaged to Lacus Clyne( technically she doesn't know about Cagalli). It's her way of saying: " YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO DO WHAT YOU WANT DON'T YOU? YOU WANT TO DEFECT JUST LIKE THAT, YOU DID. YOU WANT TO JOIN THE ARCHANGEL AGAIN, FINE, YOU DID. BUT WHAT IS UNFORGIVABLE IS YOU BROUGHT MY SISTER WITH YOU! WHAT PLACE WILL SHE HAVE IN YOUR LIFE THEN, AS YOU'RE ALREADY COMMITED TO SOMEONE ELSE( flashbacks about Meer, since she has no idea that the latter has been killed)! ARE YOU GOING TO MAKE A FOOL OF MY SISTER JUST BECAUSE SHE REALLY HAPPENS TO LIKE YOU AND WOULD SWALLOW EVERYTHING YOU SAY?"
Again, this is not the sentiments of one who is apathetic. The only thing that resulted in the misinterpretation of the statement and the sequence as a whole would be some viewers who already assumed what she wanted to say before she actually uttered it.
Personally, I prefer Lunamaria over Meyrin. I think she was just protecting her sister in her own way. I find Meyrin to be a little stereotypical as the shy girl who secretly falls for the hero, descreetly seeks his attention etc.
MISINTERPRETATION # 4: LUNA AND MEYRIN WERE BOTH VYING FOR ATHRUN'S ROMANTIC ATTENTION
This is another one for the ages . What made some people think that just because a girl/woman wants to gain a boy/man's attention, it can automatically be deduced that she is ROMANTICALLY interested in him. Again, see references to MISINTERPRETATION # 1. What she had for Athrun was like a kohai's admiration for a particularly famous senpai. As for scenes in which she overshadowed Meyrin with regards to addressing Athrun. It is obvious that Luna is the more straightforward and outspoken of the two. It is just a case of "your too trusting, let me do the talking.", as these traits are pretty obvious of Meyrin, paricularly how she really believes everything that Athrun said, just because he said it . Simply put, I would prefer girl characters who are frank and direct, but in reality are more cautious, other than one who seems shy and demure, but is actually more gullible and easily persuaded.
Again, Luna and Meyrin were not a typical sweet sister relationship, but one cannot deny that the former cared about her younger sister deeply. Unfortunately, some don't seem to realize this.
MISINTERPRETATION # 5: HER TRUE FEELINGS ABOUT SHINN AND VICE VERSA
This will be the most challenging subject of all, especially considering that it is one of the most common misconceptions and is composed of various elements. Thus, I will address each of these in sections:
A) That there are no clues pertaining to the Shinn and Lunamaria relationship prior to Stellar's death and Athrun and Meyrin's defection. For careful observers, even at the beginning of the series, there were numerous clues that point to these two as being a potential couple. Being familiar with the storyline developments of the numerous anime that I've watched, the probability is always high that two characters who seem mismatched but share qualities and an understanding of each other to some degree will most likely end up with each other. Although I will forever be a Stellar fan, her being one of the more memorable characters in GSD despite her limited role in the series, the truth is the criteria I've mentioned applies more applicably to Shinn and Lunamaria as a pairing. It is sort of like Shinji and Asuka, although many believed he would end up with Rei. Another example of that would be Cloud Strife and Aeris Gainsborough, although he later proved to be more compatible to Tifa Lockhart despite some protests from fans.
As a couple, Luna and Shinn had more experience together, having known each other since their days in the Academy. Also, Shinn's relationship with Stellar was more of a protective one rather than an actual "give and take" relationship. Stellar wasn't really capble of "giving back" since, sadly, her chance of living a normal life was forcibly stolen along with her memories. It wasn't her fault really, she was just a victim of conflict, which is ingrained in humanity since their early days of existence. Also, despite both having tragic pasts, Shinn and Stellar didn't have that much in common.
I believe that Shinn saw Stellar, in a very deep and profound way, as a focal point for his sorrow. She was a tragic figure, but also strangely innocent, the second coming of his beloved sister Mayu. Not a replacement, but a kindred spirit that needs protection most of all. When Stellar died Mayu died once more in Shinn's heart.
B) Shinn and Lunamaria's similarities.
Some viewers overlooked clues that were present even during the initial episodes in the series. It is clear that these two are people who blunt and direct when stating their opinions, but not about their true feelings for each other, which shouldn't come as a surprise. It kinda reminds me about Alucard and Integra, they can say what they want when in the company of other people but never their true views regarding each other. However, they have pretty much contrasting attitudes, and this leads to people thinking that they don't have anything in common at all, I'm talking about Shinn and Lunamaria here. She and Shinn are both very repressed people, meaning they tend to be bowled over by their emotions or their attempts to supress it that they have a hard time conveying them properly. Although in the case of Shinn, this is more obvious, due to his introverted nature, sharp remarks, and general animosity towards others. As for Lunamaria, she usually disguises her doubts, aggravations or true feelings in a facade of cheerfulness, thus some people would most likely find her to be a dunce, or interpret this as pretentiousness. Yes, it is true that she was still immature in some ways, stubborn and likely to jump into conclusions, but then, who among us was so well-rounded as an individual that we never passed this stage in life? We are, as I have said, human, quintessentially imperfect.
It can be noted that while no one else could get close to Shinn during his more "chaotic" phases, especially after Heine's death, and most instances were everyone's attitude toward him would be; " What the hell...let's come back when he's in a better mood. ", Lunamaria was the only one who could talk to him. Although most of the time Shinn would act nonchalant or bland towards her, it can be discerned that he doesn't really resent the attention given him by Lunamaria. He behaves like a stoic person who enjoys beautiful music but would not let it show in his face, which makes it somewhat amusing for me.
It is also hinted that during their days at the academy, Shinn, despite his fiery temper and acidic disposition, was somewhat admired by most female cadets, mainly due to his "bad-guy" attitide and superior skills as a pilot. Being essentially a person who does not readily show her true feelings, it took a long time for Lunamaria to actually admit to herself that she really cared more about Shinn than she thought. Her character is technically a girl who behaves like an attention-grabber on the outside, but is actually a conservative somewhere inside the core.^^
3) Shinn's true feelings:
It is obvious that Shinn was a lot closer to Luna than he would admit to himself. Essentially, he's really that sort of person, so, "Shikata ga nai".^^ It is actually one of the things that made him an interesting character. While he seems noncommital and coarse with regards to Lunamaria, he doesn't really resent her presence. Most of the time, only Luna could get close to him, besides Rey, when he is in a particularly dark mood.
Having said this, I don't think that their pairing was abrupt, or, as some term it, sick. What happened in the latter part of the series was simply a culmination of all the repressed feelings they had, being held back for a long period of time. It isn't that they suddenly realized that "they loved each other", rather they finally admitted to themselves that they have loved each other for a long time.
Another misconception is regarding her supposed lack of negative reaction over the fact that it was Shinn who executed the orderto terminate the defecting Athrun, and consequently, Meyrin( whom I think is too gullible for her own good...). Some claim that she is unjustified in blaming it all on Athrun. Strange, since HE was the one who defected and turned his back on ZAFT once again, so Luna would be very immature and unprofessional as a soldier not to take into account that there was an order from the High Command regarding traitors( I'm sure that members of the special forces are briefed about that during training, for more info on that, research on the policies of the CIA and the KGB regarding operatives who defect to the other side of the fence. ), and he couldn't change it even if he wanted to, not if he wanted to maintain his integrity as a soldier anyway.
She showed a flash of maturity in handling this situation. The assertion that they "suddenly" became close to each other after the incident is simply false. These two are like stars slowly moving toward each other since the beginning of the series. I preferred her reaction to the usual crying and screaming of " You killed _________! hate you!", and in this respect, I prefer Luna from Fllay Alster, whose character in my opinion was overdone( but not in a good way...).
Having said this, I don't think that Luna is "pointless" or a "useless" character. It's just that some people didn't really care to undertsand her motivations or actions that much, since they were so enamored with the old characters, or simply don't pay attention to subtle clues.
Anyway, let me knoe what you think, if you've actually managed to read this^^ without getting eyesores. It's just that I had a lot to say about the subject and focused on them in detail. Here's to understanding.^^
Have a nice day! Ganbarimasu!
First of all, I would like to make it clear that this thread is not merely a reply to another opposite thread, but rather, my exegesis on aspects of LUNAMARIA HAWKE's character and actions that were previously overlooked. She is not my favourite character in GSD, that would be Stellar Louissier, but, in my opinion, she's the one who really needs an exposition. It is time for a defense. It is therefore my task to defend a most misunderstood female in the Seed series. AN EXEGESIS TO THE " LUNA MARE."
Well, before I make my point clear, I'd like to say a few things that don't necessarily tie up with Lunamaria's character at first glance. First of all I don't think this post was really meant for character bashing and some words were used out of sheer emotion or just for kicks( even I had to restrain myself sometimes whenever I read statements that Kira Yamato is nothing short of a god, especially in GSD... so there you go, I'm NOT fond of Gundam Seed's main " protagonist ", but when I write my opinion about him, I normally try to refrain from using words that are obviously too emotionally colored... ). Then again the one who posted clearly stated that she/he would be open for dissenting opinions( here's hoping that she/he would answer this opinion of mine in kind, since its been a while when last I found a worthy opponent...hehe, sick ), so someone who does not agree with what was written should just take the pill and reason with tact and precision( something that few people consider when emotionally stricken... ). After thoroughly reading this reply and considering all the points that will be given, I hope she/he would answer each and everyone of my statements with the same objectiveness, so this is it for the long haul.
First, I would like to curb the impression that I'm most likely a Lunamaria fan, which is untrue( actually I'm a staunch supporter of the Shinn Asuka/Stellar Louissier pairing, and am under the impression that it was one of the few outstanding things in GSD... more on that on my review, so feel free to read it and then post a comment if you like ). However, some of the points given in the aforementioned post( and this is my opinion ), are somewhat invalid( which I will of course try to point out ), or a little too emotionally colored. Having read most of the replies regarding this subject matter, I get the impression that those opposed to how Lunamaria's character turned out seemed too angry or unobjective to convince me that they have a valid point pertaining to their opinion of her being " a shallow character ", as well as some of those who favor her. Having said this, I will declare first my stand on the matter. It is true that she had traits that are somewhat negative( but then, so has every other character in every other show that has been made since the dawn of television broadcast ), but we are human after all, as a rule, we are imperfect. Do those negative traits far out weigh the good ones in Lunamaria's case that she is, as some assert, a " pointless character "? For me, and I think for others with the same opinion as me, the answer is no.
Thus, I will be breaking down her character and her actions in various points during the series, so as to elaborate on my reasons for making such a stand on the matter.
First, all these statements will be guided by the following assumptions in context and reference.
1. This assuming that all of the events in Destiny actually happened, in order to prevent references to the makers, since the one who posted clearly mentioned that this is about how Lunamaria's character turned out, as opposed to what she might have been. If I deviate from this, I could elaborate on how the latter half of GSD was a poorly written, confusing and schizophrenic failure due to emphasis on marketing success rather than actual storytelling , but then, that would be beside the point. One does not simply avoid what he doesn't like, or simply write it off as terrible without validating his opinion objectively. So, we will leave Fukuda out of this, like we should( lucky for him ).
2. However, I would like to request that the other side do the same as well. I believe I read in the post that a statement from a staff member at Sunrise was cited to prove that Lunamaria and Shinn were not in a close relationship( I believe it was an interview ): i. e. " Shinn was never close to anyone on the Minerva. ". While some would most likely use this as a reference to support his/her opinion, it is not advisable to do so. The reasons are as follows:
A. The director of GS and GSD( Fukuda himself ) actually contradicted this with his statement in an interview. When asked about the romantic pairings in GSD, his reply was as follows: " I think, of all the [existing] couples in GSD, the only ones who are truly in love would be Shinn and Lunamaria, which was a pre-existing scenario even fron the beginning of the series. Kira and Lacus have already settle down, or have already passed the " in-love " stage, and Athrun and Cagalli's were almost exclusively on a comrade-in-arms level[ although this might be questioned by fans of the particular pair, since admittedlythe two did things that are mostly romance-related, if I may say so ]."
B. Another scenario writer pointed out in an interview that the Lunamaria and Shinn pairing had been conceived from the beginning of the series, not, as some claim, to be an abrupt replacement to the " aborted " Shinn and Stellar pairing, and further added that clues can be found even at the initial run of the series.
My point in citing these statements is to illustrate the fact that quotes from the makers should not be used to validate points regarding a character's motivations, actions or personality, especially when the person mentioned admits that she is talking about the " character herself". Simply put, if one could not cite Fukuda's inadequacies as director and overseer to be a reason for Lunamaria's flaws as a character, one could NOT also use interviews/statements from other members of the staff to validate their claims, since this would be a type of " double-standard "( i. e. we can use it but you can't ).
Keep in mind that statements made during interviews/documentaries can be merely opinions of the particular resource person himself/herself and could not be treated as absolute fact, since it would be only from that particular persons point of view and not a proven fact about the series itself( I remember reading a documentary on the film Schindler's List that Steven Spielberg cited Oskar as a "scoundrel saviour" and Amon Goeth as a "personification of evil", while his sriptwriter, Stephen Zaillian, commented on how Amon was just a " lost soul " and not on the same level as Lucifer , since neither opinion could be deemed wrong or right, I choose not to quote these statements as they would contradict each other.).
This would be applicable to statements of the production staff regarding aspects or characters of GSD.
With those points being made clear( I think ), let us proceed to prove or disprove the assertion that Lunamaria Hawke is " pointless " as a character and why I disagree. This conclusion, in my opinion is based on the following misunderstandings or contextual errors in interpretation of the character's actions or her personality itself:
MISINTERPRETATION #1: LUNAMARIA HAS A SERIOUS ROMANTIC DISPOSITION TOWARDS ATHRUN.
Since this is the most pervasive of the misinterpretations regarding Lunamaria's actions, I will make light of this first. Most viewers would likely assume this, either due to the fact that they like Athrun Zala, have not paid attention to contextual nuances or not paying attention to the new characters at all, which would be a shame, since I initially thought they were much better than the original cast. To set the record straight, it is clear that what Lunamaria had for Athrun could be analogous to a kohai's admiration to his/her senpai( as a user already pointed out ), which simply put, is admiration, mixed with the average woman's tendency to superficially prefer older or more "stable"( sometimes synonymous to "mature" ) guys than one from the same age bracket. The argument that it is "more than that " is non-sequitur because of the following reasons:
A) Lunamaria only started to show apparent interest(than what was normal) towards Athrun was when his real identity was revealed, since he went under the guise of "Alex deNon"( or Alex Dino/Alex Dean ). This can be expressed by her reaction when hearing his real name mentioned for the first time. ( Lunamaria: " Athrun Zala?[surprised]) If she was attracted by Athrun HIMSELF and not mainly by his reputation as an ace or a living legend for ZAFT during the previous war, the assertion that she was seriously "romantically attracted" to him might be justified. Alas, this was not the case.
B) Another, more stubborn reason for the " It is more than that " assertion regarding Lunamaria's feelings toward Athrun is THE "FACT" THAT SHE WAS JEALOUS OF MEER( which she initially mistook for Lacus ). Why have I placed quotations on the WHY? This is because it CANNOT be taken as a fact that her subsequent actions were mainly due to jealousy or frustration with her " failure to gain Athrun's attention" as some would interpret( of course, this is a rather easy way to interpret why a person is reacting negatively, this is where understanding motivations comes to fore, otherwise we will be left with only our assumptions ). If you've paid sufficient neutral attention to her actions during these events( especially after seeing Athrun and Meer ), her reaction was not one of obvious jealousy, in fact very little of it stemmed from jealousy at all. It was rather, a thinly disguised attempt at hiding a mixture of irritation, a tad of jealousy and a LOT of disappointment. Wait, disappointment? Why would she be disappointed with Athrun, or irritated for that matter? Didn't she admire him and on occassion, developed some superficial feelings( I use superficial as opposed to DEEP romantic feelings since this was obviously not the case. ) for him?
The answer can be found in the question itself. It can be noticed that Lunamaria projected Athrun to be more than he really is, as the case can be with people meeting a person they admired ( it is clear that Athrun's exploits are like legends to the ZAFT pilots, which would be reasonable, since almost everyone in the military, may it be soldiers of PLANT or the Earth Alliance, have heard of the " Three Shp Alliance's" [consequently, Athrun and Kira's] exploits during the previous war which culminated in the famous battle of Jachin Due...^_^)so much but never encountered in person. This is the case( in real life ) of my friend Carol Brigham and a senior who is a very famous varsity when we were freshmen( both of us are taking up Psychology ). Well, this senior, whom I will not name for privacy reasons( anyway, I thought he was really a numbskull when it comes to more serious aspects of life^^, he was just good-looking and and happened to be very talented at basketball, he's got great reflexes, smooth moves... oh, you get the picture...^^he wouldn't be interested in deep discussions like this...basically not my type^^, not to take anything away from Carol's preferences, hehe...) was a natural magnet for younger students( but not too young...sick^^). Carol developed somewhat of a crush on him, despite never having approached him personally ( up to this day, it still eludes me, maybe because she's still conservative in some ways, were from Missouri, not New York...^^), but asked his batchmates( the girls ) about personal details about him, the usual; what he likes, what he doesn't like, the works, until, she had herself a personal picture of him, not the correct one, mind you, but the "idealized"one that she projected, which will either be: too perfect or too critical. If it had been the latter, well it wouldn't be that bad. Unfortunately, what she projected( projection- to make out(psychological term), or to establish a mental portrait of; ) was too perfect and of course, failed to meet her expectations.
( This projection also applies to fans of an actor/actress who research too much about the details of their idol's life. Technically, not all characteristics of the famous person would be known by just researching or reading his biographies and profiles [ especially via the internet^^], so when they find out that he/or she is a rude to fans, or doesn't really mind them, or better yet extremely eccentric, they become somewhat disappointed, frustrated or irritated due to their "idealized " projection of the individual.) When Carol met him in person, he turned out to be a sort of dim person( but not in an amusing way^^), somewhat rude, and practically clueless in discussions besides basketball( I was there when he said that Badminton was for wimps, what a bright opinion, with a huge smirk on his face^^), and enjoyed having women fawn over him( how charming...xD). Needless to say, Carol was "turned off", and with good reason I might add. Anyway, if your'e going to say that I went too far using a personal matter like that as an example for a forul post, she is reading this over my shoulder now, to make sure I don't slander the facts. Hehe^^.( I'm using my laptop, we're both playing the part of owls researching Freud, only I've decided to take a break...^^)
How does this long "anecdote" connect to the Lunamaria discussion, you ask?
If you haven't figured the parallelism yet, here it is. Lunamaria Hawke new Athrun Zala indirectly, i.e. from hearsay, or from second-hand information, never having the chance to meet him in person prior to their encounter onboard the Minerva( in which she displayed the normal level of attention you would give to a stranger from Orb suddenly becoming a passenger to a ZAFT military vessel ). So, the picture that would normally be projected in her mind is an idealized impression. If the reason for this is still unclear, here is the step by steb recap:^^
A) Being trained as a member of an elite force, the crew of the Minerva, and any military personnel, for that matter, would be inclined to view discipline as a way to success( i.e., maintaining control of emotions[although Shinn is an exception, and is frequently reprimanded because of it], following orders explicitly, avoiding deviations in battle ). So, with Athrun's reputation as an ace pilot and a legendary fighter in the last war, the crew of the Minerva( except Shinn, Talia and Gilbert, if you want the reasons as to why they're exempted, read my review of Gundam Seed Destiny^^), having encountered him for the first time, would have projected him( i.e. formed a mental picture prior to actually meeting him) as a straight-laced, highly disciplined and idealized individual, in relation to his noteworthy accomplishments. You wouldn't assume outright that a very successful military commander would have unorthodox traits, because you actually assumed his personality according to his reputation, as opposed to the other way around. Lunamaria is no exception to this projection. She actually formed an idealized "version" of Athrun Zala based on what she knew about him from indirect sources, so that when she actually met him, she expected his personality to be exactly as she presumed.
Now, this brings us back to the reason as to why Lunamaria acted the way she did when she first saw Meer and Athrun together.
To those who haven't found the answer( or at least, a huge chunk of it )yet, she was for the most part frustrated and disappointed that her "idea" of Athrun's personality was off-base^^, which was understandable, since she saw only the incomplete picture, especially that scene when she saw Meer in Athrun's room in a very suggestive manner^^. Give the girl a break. The fact of the matter is, she assumed that Athrun Zala, the "legendary ZAFT pilot" was very conservative, hardly turned his attention to women, and was figuratively speaking, a very "stiff" and military-oriented person. This misconception was actually an honest mistake and is very humorous( at least for me)^^. So when she abruptly discovered that the real Athrun was still very close to a teen-ager emotionally and behaviour-wise, despite his legendary exploits, she was in a way, "turned-off" like my friend Carol. She probably thought that he was a sort of "ladies man", the type who enjoys women orbiting him like satellites.The way Athrun tried to set the record straight after the incident with Meer was actually entertaining.
After that she mostly resorted to ignoring this " discovery" about Athrun's personality and went about to focus on his more professional attributes, hence, the scenes in which she convinces the latter to try out some shooting exercises, the constant questions about his exploits as a pilot during the last war, and other sequences which were assumed as "flirting" by some viewers.
The perk is that whenever she sees Athrun with Meer, she feels a return of her previous frustration over her perceived "misconception" of Athrun's personality, and this prompts her to act negatively during such instances. In this aspect , Luna is different from Carol, who immediately erased the aforementioned "guy" from her memory banks after their first meeting, but then, the said person is definitely no Athrun Zala, and has no chance of being a legendary figure either^^. I hope I made the point clear about Luna's negative reaction not being primarily out of jealousy as others have hastily concluded.
MISINTERPRETATION # 2: LUNAMARIA WAS TERRIBLE TO HER SISTER MEYRIN
Another basis for some fans to attack Lunamaria's character would be the her supposed apathy toward her younger sister, Meyrin. This is actually based on the assumption that just because a sibling relationship does not adhere to certain stereotypes( i.e. the " doting sister stereotype ", the " obviously rivals " stereotype or the "dysfunctional setup" a la Rekka and Kurei-sama in Rekka no Honou ), then one of them must be a problematic character. This is the case between Lunamaria and Meyrin. Neither of them are particularly meticulous about each other, as Lunamaria is the sort of older sister that doesn't openly express feelings, and Meyrin is the type who would willingly just let her older sister go about her business, as opposed to the petulant and spoiled younger sibling stereotype. A perfect example of this would be their scenes in the Minerva. As for the scene were Luna "reprimanded" her sister for not visiting her in the infirmary, again, its just another proof that she fits the superficially hard-edged older sister type, which kinda reminds me of my own sister, three years older than me. She has a tendency to reprimand me for the smallest things, but never did I get the feeling that she "hated" me or was deliberately being stuck-up. It's amazing how few noticed that although Luna was like this, Meyrin didn't harbor any resent, and this is evidently not because she was just being nice ar simply " enduring the torture^^", but because she knew deep inside that although ner sister could be stubborn and immature sometimes, she genuinely loved her.
As for her apparent interest in Athrun that she sometimes ignores Meyrin, this actually happens in the initial episodes, so Lunamaria was still pretty much in " hero admiration mode ". However, some important sequences clearly illustrated that she truly valued her younger sister. During Athrun's escape attempt, when Meyrin came out of the shower and opened the door, Lunamaria remarked, "You look terrible." Other viewers simply took this as an insult to Meyrin, and just another case of Lunamaria being "stuck'up" or "mean" towards her sister. Keep in mind the context, Luna was escorted by gendarmes, and they would be blind not to see that she just hastily dressed after leaving the shower in a hurry. So, knowing Luna's personality( she actually resembles Shinn in the aspect that they are both bluntly direct and tactless when stating their opinions, which is not really that bothersome for me ), the " You look terrible. " comment was just her way of saying," What are you thinking, coming out looking like you just came out of the shower and barely dressed? Don't you see that the soldiers are gawking at you? ", which was sufficiently proven when she cleared the soldiers from the doorway. Taking into account that she didn't know her sister was covering for the defecting Athrun, I don't think her actions during this scene were "offensive", as some have asserted.
Another misconception is her lack of concern for Meyrin, especially when the latter defected, and was subsequently, labeled a traitor and reported KIA( as for the issue with Shinn, more on that after this...^^). First of all, it is evident that being a member of the elite forces, unlike Meyrin who was a CIC, Lunamaria received substantially higher levels of indoctrination. Simply hearing a conversation about assassination attempts, impersonations of Lacus Clyne and other things dicussed by Athrun and Kira during the secret meeting by the Orb waterline would be unlikely to instill sufficient doubt in her mind. Let me state it again, military indoctrination is not brainwashing, as some claim. This usually stems from the belief that individual opinions are a prime accommodation within the armed forces, caused by watching too many su-par war movies and unfamiliarity with hoe things work inside the military in real life. People, nowadays, especially those with no actual military knowledge whatsoever, think that soldiers can be made to question their training just by hearing a contrary or revelatory statement from an enemy. Sorry folks, my Grandpa actually participated during the Normandy offensive in WWII, he landed on a beach called Utah, and he used to tell us about how it really was during the war before he passed away. I wouldn't really talk in detail about this, since remembering him makes me sad. To be direct, he told us that some of the men in his company were born in Germany and Poland, and most likely they would be meeting their brothers or sisters in the front, since they would be fighting on different sides. He said these soldiers hate it, but they would kill their relatives on the other side if they are ordered upon to do so. It is sad, but this is the way real conflict unfolds. Hardly like in the movies where everyone is constantly questioning their reasons for going to war. For the most part, a soldier's primary concern is not getting killed before accomplishing his objective. Real war is seldom so dramatic. I suggest you read more about real warfare, tactics and experiences before watching the Seed series, otherwise you'll assume that real battle unfolds in the same way, which wouldn't be accurate, in any case.
Having stated this, It is obvious why Luna didn't became suspicious of ZAFT or Gilbert's intentions. Are we so naive to think that during training soldiers are not acquainted with the deceptive tactics that would normally be used by an enemy to instill doubt to the opposing force or weaken their resolve? In this case, the conversation was true, but any soldier of the opposing side worth his salt wouldn't buy that unless he/she was a barely-trained raw recruit^^.
The reason why Luna wasn't convinced even after Meyrin defected with Athrun, was that( understandably ), she was under the opinion that Athrun took advantage of Meyrin's minimal experience and naivete, forcing her into defecting with him. Again, it is clear that Lunamaria was just overprotective of her sister, a matter that I will discuss later on. She sees Meyrin as her responsibility, as according to the back story, they lost their parents at a young age( a fact that was not brought up during the series ). Remember her impression that Athrun somehow "failed" her projected "image" of him? Now, his defection, with Meyrin in tow, crushed that for good. Thr reason she blamed it on Athrun is because what he is doing directly contradicts what Luna expected him to be. She is angry and in denial, probably thinking: " The Athrun Zala that I thought I knew was a lie. The legend is just another fallible man, and a spineless and deceptive one at that( this in no way reflects my personal opinion of Athrun^^, I'm just getting inside Luna's head as she was at that point in time). Not only did he betray us, he took my sister as well( I will explain later why this is NOT a sign of Luna's jelousy of Meyrin, just bear with me until I get there.)! " She was actually worried about Meyrin, being naturally a trusting person and easily confused or persuaded, and the fact that Athrun "would make easy prey of her." These are not the thought patterns of an apathetic or uncaring person if you ask me.
MISINTERPRETATION # 3: THE FLASHBACKS AT THE FINALE
For me, these are the sequences from which most misconceptions about Lunamaria's character stemmed. Why she was thinking about what she was thinking during the finale, which apparently so many people misunderstood it's almost funny. As she attempts to egage Athrun in a fight during the Battle of Messiah( final episode and the extended version ), Lunamaria utters these words: " What I can't forgive is the fact that you took Meyrin!", and with the statement come a string of flashbacks about Meer.
How this could possibly prove that Luna does not care about her sister is beyond me. Again, as with all incomplete statements, some people really got it wrong, which kinda reminds me about how everyone missed the entire point of The Matrix Trilogy. The average viewer just fits the statement into what he/she is already thinking, rather than trying to see the statement within the context. Some have interpreted this as proof that Luna is jealous of Meyrin because Athrun chose her, which is downright ludicrous. Another misinterpretation is that Luna was still fuming over the Athrun and Meer thing , and I wouldn't even honor that with a reply. Let us be neutral and explore the true context of that scene:
A) It is unlikely that Lunamaria would be jealous of Meyrin and yet recall Meer at the same time. It is out of context.
Think about it, shouldn't she be visualizing scenarios about Athrun and her sister?
B) It is also non-sequitur to assume that if she's having flashbacks about Meer, then she must still be fuming about that. What she
said(shouted ) definitely debunked that. If youwant to read it again, see above .
*THE MEANING THAT MANY FAILED TO GET A HOLD OF:
Remember her belief that Athrun took advantage of her sister's innocence and naivete? Also the idea that Athrun is actually a deceptive person after his unpredictable behaviour? The fact that Luna mistook Meer for Lacus and(like any crew of the Minerva)thus assumed that he was engaged? Technically Luna assumed that Athrun was just deceiving Meyrin into believing that ZAFT was erring in their stand and beliefs, due to her more intensive indoctrination as an elite soldier.
Why the Meer flashback then?
After his defection, Athrun and Luna never really had communication with each other again, so her negative impressions of him since he left would more or less unchanged. When they met during the battle, be keen to note that Luna never showed immediate signs of extreme anger towards Athrun. Only when she recalled that he took Meyrin did we see her temper flaring.
For Luna, Athrun would only use Meyrin as she was under the impression that he was engaged to Lacus Clyne( technically she doesn't know about Cagalli). It's her way of saying: " YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO DO WHAT YOU WANT DON'T YOU? YOU WANT TO DEFECT JUST LIKE THAT, YOU DID. YOU WANT TO JOIN THE ARCHANGEL AGAIN, FINE, YOU DID. BUT WHAT IS UNFORGIVABLE IS YOU BROUGHT MY SISTER WITH YOU! WHAT PLACE WILL SHE HAVE IN YOUR LIFE THEN, AS YOU'RE ALREADY COMMITED TO SOMEONE ELSE( flashbacks about Meer, since she has no idea that the latter has been killed)! ARE YOU GOING TO MAKE A FOOL OF MY SISTER JUST BECAUSE SHE REALLY HAPPENS TO LIKE YOU AND WOULD SWALLOW EVERYTHING YOU SAY?"
Again, this is not the sentiments of one who is apathetic. The only thing that resulted in the misinterpretation of the statement and the sequence as a whole would be some viewers who already assumed what she wanted to say before she actually uttered it.
Personally, I prefer Lunamaria over Meyrin. I think she was just protecting her sister in her own way. I find Meyrin to be a little stereotypical as the shy girl who secretly falls for the hero, descreetly seeks his attention etc.
MISINTERPRETATION # 4: LUNA AND MEYRIN WERE BOTH VYING FOR ATHRUN'S ROMANTIC ATTENTION
This is another one for the ages . What made some people think that just because a girl/woman wants to gain a boy/man's attention, it can automatically be deduced that she is ROMANTICALLY interested in him. Again, see references to MISINTERPRETATION # 1. What she had for Athrun was like a kohai's admiration for a particularly famous senpai. As for scenes in which she overshadowed Meyrin with regards to addressing Athrun. It is obvious that Luna is the more straightforward and outspoken of the two. It is just a case of "your too trusting, let me do the talking.", as these traits are pretty obvious of Meyrin, paricularly how she really believes everything that Athrun said, just because he said it . Simply put, I would prefer girl characters who are frank and direct, but in reality are more cautious, other than one who seems shy and demure, but is actually more gullible and easily persuaded.
Again, Luna and Meyrin were not a typical sweet sister relationship, but one cannot deny that the former cared about her younger sister deeply. Unfortunately, some don't seem to realize this.
MISINTERPRETATION # 5: HER TRUE FEELINGS ABOUT SHINN AND VICE VERSA
This will be the most challenging subject of all, especially considering that it is one of the most common misconceptions and is composed of various elements. Thus, I will address each of these in sections:
A) That there are no clues pertaining to the Shinn and Lunamaria relationship prior to Stellar's death and Athrun and Meyrin's defection. For careful observers, even at the beginning of the series, there were numerous clues that point to these two as being a potential couple. Being familiar with the storyline developments of the numerous anime that I've watched, the probability is always high that two characters who seem mismatched but share qualities and an understanding of each other to some degree will most likely end up with each other. Although I will forever be a Stellar fan, her being one of the more memorable characters in GSD despite her limited role in the series, the truth is the criteria I've mentioned applies more applicably to Shinn and Lunamaria as a pairing. It is sort of like Shinji and Asuka, although many believed he would end up with Rei. Another example of that would be Cloud Strife and Aeris Gainsborough, although he later proved to be more compatible to Tifa Lockhart despite some protests from fans.
As a couple, Luna and Shinn had more experience together, having known each other since their days in the Academy. Also, Shinn's relationship with Stellar was more of a protective one rather than an actual "give and take" relationship. Stellar wasn't really capble of "giving back" since, sadly, her chance of living a normal life was forcibly stolen along with her memories. It wasn't her fault really, she was just a victim of conflict, which is ingrained in humanity since their early days of existence. Also, despite both having tragic pasts, Shinn and Stellar didn't have that much in common.
I believe that Shinn saw Stellar, in a very deep and profound way, as a focal point for his sorrow. She was a tragic figure, but also strangely innocent, the second coming of his beloved sister Mayu. Not a replacement, but a kindred spirit that needs protection most of all. When Stellar died Mayu died once more in Shinn's heart.
B) Shinn and Lunamaria's similarities.
Some viewers overlooked clues that were present even during the initial episodes in the series. It is clear that these two are people who blunt and direct when stating their opinions, but not about their true feelings for each other, which shouldn't come as a surprise. It kinda reminds me about Alucard and Integra, they can say what they want when in the company of other people but never their true views regarding each other. However, they have pretty much contrasting attitudes, and this leads to people thinking that they don't have anything in common at all, I'm talking about Shinn and Lunamaria here. She and Shinn are both very repressed people, meaning they tend to be bowled over by their emotions or their attempts to supress it that they have a hard time conveying them properly. Although in the case of Shinn, this is more obvious, due to his introverted nature, sharp remarks, and general animosity towards others. As for Lunamaria, she usually disguises her doubts, aggravations or true feelings in a facade of cheerfulness, thus some people would most likely find her to be a dunce, or interpret this as pretentiousness. Yes, it is true that she was still immature in some ways, stubborn and likely to jump into conclusions, but then, who among us was so well-rounded as an individual that we never passed this stage in life? We are, as I have said, human, quintessentially imperfect.
It can be noted that while no one else could get close to Shinn during his more "chaotic" phases, especially after Heine's death, and most instances were everyone's attitude toward him would be; " What the hell...let's come back when he's in a better mood. ", Lunamaria was the only one who could talk to him. Although most of the time Shinn would act nonchalant or bland towards her, it can be discerned that he doesn't really resent the attention given him by Lunamaria. He behaves like a stoic person who enjoys beautiful music but would not let it show in his face, which makes it somewhat amusing for me.
It is also hinted that during their days at the academy, Shinn, despite his fiery temper and acidic disposition, was somewhat admired by most female cadets, mainly due to his "bad-guy" attitide and superior skills as a pilot. Being essentially a person who does not readily show her true feelings, it took a long time for Lunamaria to actually admit to herself that she really cared more about Shinn than she thought. Her character is technically a girl who behaves like an attention-grabber on the outside, but is actually a conservative somewhere inside the core.^^
3) Shinn's true feelings:
It is obvious that Shinn was a lot closer to Luna than he would admit to himself. Essentially, he's really that sort of person, so, "Shikata ga nai".^^ It is actually one of the things that made him an interesting character. While he seems noncommital and coarse with regards to Lunamaria, he doesn't really resent her presence. Most of the time, only Luna could get close to him, besides Rey, when he is in a particularly dark mood.
Having said this, I don't think that their pairing was abrupt, or, as some term it, sick. What happened in the latter part of the series was simply a culmination of all the repressed feelings they had, being held back for a long period of time. It isn't that they suddenly realized that "they loved each other", rather they finally admitted to themselves that they have loved each other for a long time.
Another misconception is regarding her supposed lack of negative reaction over the fact that it was Shinn who executed the orderto terminate the defecting Athrun, and consequently, Meyrin( whom I think is too gullible for her own good...). Some claim that she is unjustified in blaming it all on Athrun. Strange, since HE was the one who defected and turned his back on ZAFT once again, so Luna would be very immature and unprofessional as a soldier not to take into account that there was an order from the High Command regarding traitors( I'm sure that members of the special forces are briefed about that during training, for more info on that, research on the policies of the CIA and the KGB regarding operatives who defect to the other side of the fence. ), and he couldn't change it even if he wanted to, not if he wanted to maintain his integrity as a soldier anyway.
She showed a flash of maturity in handling this situation. The assertion that they "suddenly" became close to each other after the incident is simply false. These two are like stars slowly moving toward each other since the beginning of the series. I preferred her reaction to the usual crying and screaming of " You killed _________! hate you!", and in this respect, I prefer Luna from Fllay Alster, whose character in my opinion was overdone( but not in a good way...).
Having said this, I don't think that Luna is "pointless" or a "useless" character. It's just that some people didn't really care to undertsand her motivations or actions that much, since they were so enamored with the old characters, or simply don't pay attention to subtle clues.
Anyway, let me knoe what you think, if you've actually managed to read this^^ without getting eyesores. It's just that I had a lot to say about the subject and focused on them in detail. Here's to understanding.^^
Have a nice day! Ganbarimasu!
First of all, I would like to make it clear that this thread is not merely a reply to another opposite thread, but rather, my exegesis on aspects of LUNAMARIA HAWKE's character and actions that were previously overlooked. She is not my favourite character in GSD, that would be Stellar Louissier, but, in my opinion, she's the one who really needs an exposition. It is time for a defense. It is therefore my task to defend a most misunderstood female in the Seed series. AN EXEGESIS TO THE " LUNA MARE."
Well, before I make my point clear, I'd like to say a few things that don't necessarily tie up with Lunamaria's character at first glance. First of all I don't think this post was really meant for character bashing and some words were used out of sheer emotion or just for kicks( even I had to restrain myself sometimes whenever I read statements that Kira Yamato is nothing short of a god, especially in GSD... so there you go, I'm NOT fond of Gundam Seed's main " protagonist ", but when I write my opinion about him, I normally try to refrain from using words that are obviously too emotionally colored... ). Then again the one who posted clearly stated that she/he would be open for dissenting opinions( here's hoping that she/he would answer this opinion of mine in kind, since its been a while when last I found a worthy opponent...hehe, sick ), so someone who does not agree with what was written should just take the pill and reason with tact and precision( something that few people consider when emotionally stricken... ). After thoroughly reading this reply and considering all the points that will be given, I hope she/he would answer each and everyone of my statements with the same objectiveness, so this is it for the long haul.
First, I would like to curb the impression that I'm most likely a Lunamaria fan, which is untrue( actually I'm a staunch supporter of the Shinn Asuka/Stellar Louissier pairing, and am under the impression that it was one of the few outstanding things in GSD... more on that on my review, so feel free to read it and then post a comment if you like ). However, some of the points given in the aforementioned post( and this is my opinion ), are somewhat invalid( which I will of course try to point out ), or a little too emotionally colored. Having read most of the replies regarding this subject matter, I get the impression that those opposed to how Lunamaria's character turned out seemed too angry or unobjective to convince me that they have a valid point pertaining to their opinion of her being " a shallow character ", as well as some of those who favor her. Having said this, I will declare first my stand on the matter. It is true that she had traits that are somewhat negative( but then, so has every other character in every other show that has been made since the dawn of television broadcast ), but we are human after all, as a rule, we are imperfect. Do those negative traits far out weigh the good ones in Lunamaria's case that she is, as some assert, a " pointless character "? For me, and I think for others with the same opinion as me, the answer is no.
Thus, I will be breaking down her character and her actions in various points during the series, so as to elaborate on my reasons for making such a stand on the matter.
First, all these statements will be guided by the following assumptions in context and reference.
1. This assuming that all of the events in Destiny actually happened, in order to prevent references to the makers, since the one who posted clearly mentioned that this is about how Lunamaria's character turned out, as opposed to what she might have been. If I deviate from this, I could elaborate on how the latter half of GSD was a poorly written, confusing and schizophrenic failure due to emphasis on marketing success rather than actual storytelling , but then, that would be beside the point. One does not simply avoid what he doesn't like, or simply write it off as terrible without validating his opinion objectively. So, we will leave Fukuda out of this, like we should( lucky for him ).
2. However, I would like to request that the other side do the same as well. I believe I read in the post that a statement from a staff member at Sunrise was cited to prove that Lunamaria and Shinn were not in a close relationship( I believe it was an interview ): i. e. " Shinn was never close to anyone on the Minerva. ". While some would most likely use this as a reference to support his/her opinion, it is not advisable to do so. The reasons are as follows:
A. The director of GS and GSD( Fukuda himself ) actually contradicted this with his statement in an interview. When asked about the romantic pairings in GSD, his reply was as follows: " I think, of all the [existing] couples in GSD, the only ones who are truly in love would be Shinn and Lunamaria, which was a pre-existing scenario even fron the beginning of the series. Kira and Lacus have already settle down, or have already passed the " in-love " stage, and Athrun and Cagalli's were almost exclusively on a comrade-in-arms level[ although this might be questioned by fans of the particular pair, since admittedlythe two did things that are mostly romance-related, if I may say so ]."
B. Another scenario writer pointed out in an interview that the Lunamaria and Shinn pairing had been conceived from the beginning of the series, not, as some claim, to be an abrupt replacement to the " aborted " Shinn and Stellar pairing, and further added that clues can be found even at the initial run of the series.
My point in citing these statements is to illustrate the fact that quotes from the makers should not be used to validate points regarding a character's motivations, actions or personality, especially when the person mentioned admits that she is talking about the " character herself". Simply put, if one could not cite Fukuda's inadequacies as director and overseer to be a reason for Lunamaria's flaws as a character, one could NOT also use interviews/statements from other members of the staff to validate their claims, since this would be a type of " double-standard "( i. e. we can use it but you can't ).
Keep in mind that statements made during interviews/documentaries can be merely opinions of the particular resource person himself/herself and could not be treated as absolute fact, since it would be only from that particular persons point of view and not a proven fact about the series itself( I remember reading a documentary on the film Schindler's List that Steven Spielberg cited Oskar as a "scoundrel saviour" and Amon Goeth as a "personification of evil", while his sriptwriter, Stephen Zaillian, commented on how Amon was just a " lost soul " and not on the same level as Lucifer , since neither opinion could be deemed wrong or right, I choose not to quote these statements as they would contradict each other.).
This would be applicable to statements of the production staff regarding aspects or characters of GSD.
With those points being made clear( I think ), let us proceed to prove or disprove the assertion that Lunamaria Hawke is " pointless " as a character and why I disagree. This conclusion, in my opinion is based on the following misunderstandings or contextual errors in interpretation of the character's actions or her personality itself:
MISINTERPRETATION #1: LUNAMARIA HAS A SERIOUS ROMANTIC DISPOSITION TOWARDS ATHRUN.
Since this is the most pervasive of the misinterpretations regarding Lunamaria's actions, I will make light of this first. Most viewers would likely assume this, either due to the fact that they like Athrun Zala, have not paid attention to contextual nuances or not paying attention to the new characters at all, which would be a shame, since I initially thought they were much better than the original cast. To set the record straight, it is clear that what Lunamaria had for Athrun could be analogous to a kohai's admiration to his/her senpai( as a user already pointed out ), which simply put, is admiration, mixed with the average woman's tendency to superficially prefer older or more "stable"( sometimes synonymous to "mature" ) guys than one from the same age bracket. The argument that it is "more than that " is non-sequitur because of the following reasons:
A) Lunamaria only started to show apparent interest(than what was normal) towards Athrun was when his real identity was revealed, since he went under the guise of "Alex deNon"( or Alex Dino/Alex Dean ). This can be expressed by her reaction when hearing his real name mentioned for the first time. ( Lunamaria: " Athrun Zala?[surprised]) If she was attracted by Athrun HIMSELF and not mainly by his reputation as an ace or a living legend for ZAFT during the previous war, the assertion that she was seriously "romantically attracted" to him might be justified. Alas, this was not the case.
B) Another, more stubborn reason for the " It is more than that " assertion regarding Lunamaria's feelings toward Athrun is THE "FACT" THAT SHE WAS JEALOUS OF MEER( which she initially mistook for Lacus ). Why have I placed quotations on the WHY? This is because it CANNOT be taken as a fact that her subsequent actions were mainly due to jealousy or frustration with her " failure to gain Athrun's attention" as some would interpret( of course, this is a rather easy way to interpret why a person is reacting negatively, this is where understanding motivations comes to fore, otherwise we will be left with only our assumptions ). If you've paid sufficient neutral attention to her actions during these events( especially after seeing Athrun and Meer ), her reaction was not one of obvious jealousy, in fact very little of it stemmed from jealousy at all. It was rather, a thinly disguised attempt at hiding a mixture of irritation, a tad of jealousy and a LOT of disappointment. Wait, disappointment? Why would she be disappointed with Athrun, or irritated for that matter? Didn't she admire him and on occassion, developed some superficial feelings( I use superficial as opposed to DEEP romantic feelings since this was obviously not the case. ) for him?
The answer can be found in the question itself. It can be noticed that Lunamaria projected Athrun to be more than he really is, as the case can be with people meeting a person they admired ( it is clear that Athrun's exploits are like legends to the ZAFT pilots, which would be reasonable, since almost everyone in the military, may it be soldiers of PLANT or the Earth Alliance, have heard of the " Three Shp Alliance's" [consequently, Athrun and Kira's] exploits during the previous war which culminated in the famous battle of Jachin Due...^_^)so much but never encountered in person. This is the case( in real life ) of my friend Carol Brigham and a senior who is a very famous varsity when we were freshmen( both of us are taking up Psychology ). Well, this senior, whom I will not name for privacy reasons( anyway, I thought he was really a numbskull when it comes to more serious aspects of life^^, he was just good-looking and and happened to be very talented at basketball, he's got great reflexes, smooth moves... oh, you get the picture...^^he wouldn't be interested in deep discussions like this...basically not my type^^, not to take anything away from Carol's preferences, hehe...) was a natural magnet for younger students( but not too young...sick^^). Carol developed somewhat of a crush on him, despite never having approached him personally ( up to this day, it still eludes me, maybe because she's still conservative in some ways, were from Missouri, not New York...^^), but asked his batchmates( the girls ) about personal details about him, the usual; what he likes, what he doesn't like, the works, until, she had herself a personal picture of him, not the correct one, mind you, but the "idealized"one that she projected, which will either be: too perfect or too critical. If it had been the latter, well it wouldn't be that bad. Unfortunately, what she projected( projection- to make out(psychological term), or to establish a mental portrait of; ) was too perfect and of course, failed to meet her expectations.
( This projection also applies to fans of an actor/actress who research too much about the details of their idol's life. Technically, not all characteristics of the famous person would be known by just researching or reading his biographies and profiles [ especially via the internet^^], so when they find out that he/or she is a rude to fans, or doesn't really mind them, or better yet extremely eccentric, they become somewhat disappointed, frustrated or irritated due to their "idealized " projection of the individual.) When Carol met him in person, he turned out to be a sort of dim person( but not in an amusing way^^), somewhat rude, and practically clueless in discussions besides basketball( I was there when he said that Badminton was for wimps, what a bright opinion, with a huge smirk on his face^^), and enjoyed having women fawn over him( how charming...xD). Needless to say, Carol was "turned off", and with good reason I might add. Anyway, if your'e going to say that I went too far using a personal matter like that as an example for a forul post, she is reading this over my shoulder now, to make sure I don't slander the facts. Hehe^^.( I'm using my laptop, we're both playing the part of owls researching Freud, only I've decided to take a break...^^)
How does this long "anecdote" connect to the Lunamaria discussion, you ask?
If you haven't figured the parallelism yet, here it is. Lunamaria Hawke new Athrun Zala indirectly, i.e. from hearsay, or from second-hand information, never having the chance to meet him in person prior to their encounter onboard the Minerva( in which she displayed the normal level of attention you would give to a stranger from Orb suddenly becoming a passenger to a ZAFT military vessel ). So, the picture that would normally be projected in her mind is an idealized impression. If the reason for this is still unclear, here is the step by steb recap:^^
A) Being trained as a member of an elite force, the crew of the Minerva, and any military personnel, for that matter, would be inclined to view discipline as a way to success( i.e., maintaining control of emotions[although Shinn is an exception, and is frequently reprimanded because of it], following orders explicitly, avoiding deviations in battle ). So, with Athrun's reputation as an ace pilot and a legendary fighter in the last war, the crew of the Minerva( except Shinn, Talia and Gilbert, if you want the reasons as to why they're exempted, read my review of Gundam Seed Destiny^^), having encountered him for the first time, would have projected him( i.e. formed a mental picture prior to actually meeting him) as a straight-laced, highly disciplined and idealized individual, in relation to his noteworthy accomplishments. You wouldn't assume outright that a very successful military commander would have unorthodox traits, because you actually assumed his personality according to his reputation, as opposed to the other way around. Lunamaria is no exception to this projection. She actually formed an idealized "version" of Athrun Zala based on what she knew about him from indirect sources, so that when she actually met him, she expected his personality to be exactly as she presumed.
Now, this brings us back to the reason as to why Lunamaria acted the way she did when she first saw Meer and Athrun together.
To those who haven't found the answer( or at least, a huge chunk of it )yet, she was for the most part frustrated and disappointed that her "idea" of Athrun's personality was off-base^^, which was understandable, since she saw only the incomplete picture, especially that scene when she saw Meer in Athrun's room in a very suggestive manner^^. Give the girl a break. The fact of the matter is, she assumed that Athrun Zala, the "legendary ZAFT pilot" was very conservative, hardly turned his attention to women, and was figuratively speaking, a very "stiff" and military-oriented person. This misconception was actually an honest mistake and is very humorous( at least for me)^^. So when she abruptly discovered that the real Athrun was still very close to a teen-ager emotionally and behaviour-wise, despite his legendary exploits, she was in a way, &qu